Author Topic: Radical Idea, But Hear It Out!! (Read 8478 times)

NF_Senator · « **Reply #40 on:** May 14, 2006, 11:50:59 PM »

Everyone knows Roy's reflexes are shot.

Nothing else to say.

mrmojo · « **Reply #41 on:** May 15, 2006, 12:06:34 AM »

His reflexes are shot? Why are you so sure? The last few seasons he played didn't indicate that to me. He finished in 02/03 and was in the All Star game....he couldn't have been too bad??? Anyway, I don't want to argue with anyone, I just thought that it would be an interesting concept to entertain. Cheers everyone

taffey · « **Reply #42 on:** May 15, 2006, 12:55:01 PM »

Quote from: mrmojo on May 15, 2006, 12:06:34 AM

His reflexes are shot? Why are you so sure? The last few seasons he played didn't indicate that to me. He finished in 02/03 and was in the All Star game....he couldn't have been too bad??? Anyway, I don't want to argue with anyone, I just thought that it would be an interesting concept to entertain. Cheers everyone

That's the thing with goaltenders though...their reflexes don't just gradually fade away. It's often a very abrupt change, as in one year you got it, the next year they're gone (if you realize that even a small percentage of change in reflex time is devastating for a goalie). That's why I brought up Belfour...he was good the season before the lockout, and this year was extremely "iffy". Just cause an aging goalie was good the year before, it doesn't mean he's going to be good the next year. That's why I wouldn't want Hasek back either, if I was a Sens fan.

puckloo39 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 15, 2006, 01:00:37 PM »

Dom's still got it. Look at the record for the season before he got hurt. The problem is, his body's given out on him. Same thing happened to Roy, I believe. Only it's his hips, not his groin. Ow. Roy just knew when to say when, and stayed retired... Dom has a tougher time with that concept, as one of the all time competitors in the sport. It must be very difficult for him to walk (or limp) away from the world that has been his life since he was 15 years old.

It is my hope that his family gets Dom to understand that this season was enough, time to go do something else. But don't be surprised to see him in someone else's net next season.

Dragne · « **Reply #44 on:** May 15, 2006, 02:23:49 PM »

I would like to see Hasek stick around as a goalie coach for us, that would be unreal I think. And honestly if he DID come back next year while still skeptical I would love watching him again. He's exciting and probably the funniest goalie to watch. That being said I dont think he'll be back and I dont know what team would want a goalie that can only play half a season (if he stays make sure he starts playing in like...march :icon_duh:).

You get creative marks for Roy, but not a chance is that gonna happen. Maybe as a coach in the future he'll be in the nhl but other than that he's definitly done.

SensOwn · « **Reply #45 on:** May 15, 2006, 02:33:07 PM »

Jacques Martin was a pretty good goalie in his day? Why not bring him back as coach AND goalie!!! That's the ticket...

AlexM · « **Reply #46 on:** May 15, 2006, 03:44:14 PM »

The irony is, if Martin were coaching the Sens in round 2, we would have won.

go_sens_go55555 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 15, 2006, 04:11:22 PM »

There is an award for the best goalie.That is the vezina.Hasek has won the vezina more times than roy,therefore he is the better goalie.Point proven.Thank you.

FV · « **Reply #48 on:** May 15, 2006, 05:14:49 PM »

Quote from: go_sens_go55555 on May 15, 2006, 04:11:22 PM

There is an award for the best goalie.That is the vezina.Hasek has won the vezina more times than roy,therefore he is the better goalie.Point proven.Thank you.

Roy coming back is ridiculous. Almost as crazy as anyone thinking Hasek was/is a better goalie than Roy. There is no comparison and Roy has the rings and records to prove it. Also, Hasek is a flake who let his team down. He was medically cleared ages ago. He should have sucked it up and played.

SCRAMBLLLLLLE... · « **Reply #49 on:** May 15, 2006, 11:01:40 PM »

Quote from: FrequentVisitor on May 15, 2006, 05:14:49 PM

There is no comparison and Roy has the rings and records to prove it.

We've already been over this. The first holds no merit as to who the better goaltender is. The latter one is not true.

puckloo39 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 15, 2006, 11:05:04 PM »

Quote from: SCRAMBLLLLLLE... on May 15, 2006, 11:01:40 PM

We've already been over this. The first holds no merit as to who the better goaltender is. The latter one is not true.

thank you.

I'm tired...

FV · « **Reply #51 on:** May 16, 2006, 01:48:31 PM »

Quote from: SCRAMBLLLLLLE... on May 15, 2006, 11:01:40 PM

We've already been over this. The first holds no merit as to who the better goaltender is. The latter one is not true.

The first is the most important stat. As for records for Roy.

Regular Season Wins - 551 ( most in any major sport )
Regular Season Games - 1029
Regular Season Minutes - 60235
Only Goalie to win 200 + games with 2 teams
Playoff Wins - 151
Playoff Games - 247
Playoff Minutes - 15206
Playoff Shutouts - 23
Playoff OT wins in one Season - 10
Playoff consecutive wins - 11
2nd Longest Playoff Scoreless Streak - 227:41
Playoff Single Season Wins (Shared) - 16
Conn Smythe Trophies - 3
Most 30 Win Seasons - 13
Youngest Conn Smythe Trophy - 20 years
Youngest Goalie to reach 400 wins 33 years

Hasek isn't even second as Brodeur is much better.

puckloo39 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:39:45 PM »

wowie... you spent lots of time on that. Thanks!

Roy spent 6 more years than Dom did in the NHL. Patty came in as a rookie in 1984. Hasek was drafted in 1983, but did not come to the US until Communism was defeated in the CZ Republic, in 1990. He didn't have the position as #1 in Buffalo until 1992 when Fuhr went down with an injury.

Go back and compare the actual seasons played by both goalies and you'll get a different picture, if stats prove anything.

If Hasek had been on a great team rather than carrying Buffalo on his shoulders during the mid-90s (said with love, the Sabres are a scrappy little team), he'd probably have more Cups than Wahhh. It's a team effort, supposedly, and not the goalie's job to win it. Ask Ray. Hasek certainly had more Vezinas, the award given to the best Goalie. One more and he ties Plante with 7.

Brodeur has had a fine career with a defensive team. Until lately. He's playing golf right now, thanks to Carolina. Brodeur had to wait for Hasek to retire to win a Vezina, and was quoted as saying, there was always that Hasek guy in my way before now.

EDIT: I didn't list all of Dom's awards. Go to NHL.com and they are all listed there.

Lara · « **Reply #53 on:** May 16, 2006, 03:22:39 PM »

Quote from: AlexM on May 15, 2006, 03:44:14 PM

The irony is, if Martin were coaching the Sens in round 2, we would have won.

Prove it.

SCRAMBLLLLLLE... · « **Reply #54 on:** May 16, 2006, 03:51:08 PM »

As puckloo alluded to, Hasek came in late. Had he been in the NHL as long as Roy, you can bet Patty wouldn't be up there.

AlexM · « **Reply #55 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:19:11 PM »

Quote from: SCRAMBLLLLLLE... on May 16, 2006, 03:51:08 PM

As puckloo alluded to, Hasek came in late. Had he been in the NHL as long as Roy, you can bet Patty wouldn't be up there.

As the poster above you said, "Prove it".

When it comes to who a better goaltender is between Roy and Hasek, Roy wins hands down. A conn Smythe combined with a Stanley cup ring > better than any other trophy out there. Roy has 3 of those, 1 more than any other PLAYER in the history of the nhl. Not only is Roy the best goaltender in hockey history, he might just be the best player in hockey history.

PHJ314 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:56:19 PM »

Quote from: AlexM on May 17, 2006, 01:19:11 PM

As the poster above you said, "Prove it".

When it comes to who a better goaltender is between Roy and Hasek, Roy wins hands down. A conn Smythe combined with a Stanley cup ring > better than any other trophy out there. Roy has 3 of those, 1 more than any other PLAYER in the history of the nhl. Not only is Roy the best goaltender in hockey history, he might just be the best player in hockey history.

Who's to say Roy, Hasek or Brodeur are the greatest players/goalies of all time?

Who says stats, or trophies determine it?

Who's to say some guy back in 1920's, 1930's, 1940's wasn't better. Back when they played a lot less games, with lesser equipment, and not near as tight a checking style game.

Who's to say that had that guy played in this day and age he'd be the best.

Back in those days there where way fewer teams = fewer players = having to be the best of the best to play on a team...who's to say that maybe, just maybe there was someone better than Hasek, or Roy or whoever!

Bill Durnan won the Vezina 6 times in 7 years.
Jaques plante won in 6 times in 7 years then won it again 7 years later.Plus he had 1 Hart Trophy and 5 stanley Cups.

The Jennings trophy only came into the league in 1982...I wonder how many J.P. could have won.

Jaques Plante: 837 GP, 2.38 GAA, 82 shutouts
Patrick Roy: 1029 GP, 2.46 GAA, 66 shutouts.

Who's to say you all aren't wrong and that Roy/Hasek/Brodeur is NOT the greatest player/goalie of all time.

Who's to say???? Who really cares!

AlexM · « **Reply #57 on:** May 17, 2006, 02:07:58 PM »

Quote from: PHJ314 on May 17, 2006, 01:56:19 PM

Who's to say Roy, Hasek or Brodeur are the greatest players/goalies of all time?

Who says stats, or trophies determine it?

Who's to say some guy back in 1920's, 1930's, 1940's wasn't better. Back when they played a lot less games, with lesser equipment, and not near as tight a checking style game.

Who's to say that had that guy played in this day and age he'd be the best.

Back in those days there where way fewer teams = fewer players = having to be the best of the best to play on a team...who's to say that maybe, just maybe there was someone better than Hasek, or Roy or whoever!

Bill Durnan won the Vezina 6 times in 7 years.
Jaques plante won in 6 times in 7 years then won it again 7 years later.Plus he had 1 Hart Trophy and 5 stanley Cups.

The Jennings trophy only came into the league in 1982...I wonder how many J.P. could have won.

Jaques Plante: 837 GP, 2.38 GAA, 82 shutouts
Patrick Roy: 1029 GP, 2.46 GAA, 66 shutouts.

Who's to say you all aren't wrong and that Roy/Hasek/Brodeur is NOT the greatest player/goalie of all time.

Who's to say???? Who really cares!

4 Rings
3 Conn Smythe trophies

Those are how I identified Patrick Roy as the best goaltender ever and possibly the best player ever.

FishNeilGrattsFan · « **Reply #58 on:** May 17, 2006, 02:08:27 PM »

Quote from: Reds_06 on May 14, 2006, 08:57:38 PM

I have an idea.....Let's try and convince Hasek to come out of retirement....maybe he can lead us to the Stanley Cup. While we're at it let's trade Hossa for Heatley and lets trade Bochenski for Arnason.

Good Idea Reds_06, I agree with you....

:icon_duh:

Isn't what we did this year ????????

PHJ314 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 17, 2006, 02:38:26 PM »

Quote from: AlexM on May 17, 2006, 02:07:58 PM

4 Rings
3 Conn Smythe trophies

Those are how I identified Patrick Roy as the best goaltender ever and possibly the best player ever.

The Conn Smythe Trophy was first awarded in 1965....

Jacques Plante played from 1952-53 to 1972-1973, played 19 season. Did not play in 1965-66 and 1966-67. He was only eligible for the Conn Smythe 5 times in his career, and it was the latter part of his career! In all his best days with the Canadians and their cup runs, there was no such thing as the Conn Smythe. And in those playoff years J.P. 5 times had a GAA of less than 1.88. 4 times he had 2 or more shutouts in only 9,8,10, and 9 games played.

If they had the Conn Smythe back then you can argue that he might have won a couple, maybe more.
And then you track on the Hart Trophy.

Like I said earlier...Who's to say who was the best!
You can argue he was the best goalie of our time.......but you can't really say in history. There really is no way of accurately comparing players from different eras.