Author Topic: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]  (Read 18634 times)

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Offline playertobenamedlater

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #280 on: January 19, 2007, 11:08:01 AM »
You did not debate my logic, you went on the defensive and restated your opinion which I still disagree with.
As for you "knowing" you are not a fool... well you know what I think of your opinions. But I will try to keep up to date on Mr. Spezza

 :beer toast:

Let's just leave it at this... I have my opinion, you have your. They differ, that's life. There is no reason to comment on what you preceive another poster's intelligence level to be or not be, because their opinion differs from yours. If you want to debate opinions, that's fine, but keep the comments to the opinions stated without taking cheap shots at other posters personally.

I have been in and around sports at various levels of competition for a long time, and Spezza just reminds me a whole lot of several other very selfish players I've seen in the past, whether he's a star player or not. Barry Bonds hits tons of homeruns, but it doesn't mean that his team wouldn't be better off without him. The Raptors are doing much better without Vince Carter, and the list goes on. Maybe Spezza will prove me wrong, and to be honest I hope he does. But from what I've seen of him so far (i.e. skating away from the bench and coach's instructions during time outs, etc) he looks like he may be trouble. For now, I will reserve judgement of him, which is far more than you've done.
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Offline bassman

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #281 on: January 19, 2007, 04:26:46 PM »
Spezza just reminds me a whole lot of several other very selfish players I've seen in the past, whether he's a star player or not. Barry Bonds hits tons of homeruns, but it doesn't mean that his team wouldn't be better off without him. The Raptors are doing much better without Vince Carter, and the list goes on. Maybe Spezza will prove me wrong, and to be honest I hope he does. But from what I've seen of him so far (i.e. skating away from the bench and coach's instructions during time outs, etc) he looks like he may be trouble. For now, I will reserve judgement of him, which is far more than you've done.

That is a fair account of an opinion ... but I was reacting to the blanket statement pinning him as 3 things I have never heard one person who plays/coaches/writes about him has even hinted at. I can accept that you see disturbing things in him.  That is valid perhaps ... I disagree but I can see how you might say that. Like I said I do not go that far very often... in fact I do believe that is the first time I have ever gone off like that on here. I would have prefered if you had said something a little less definitive than he IS A, B and C.  but oh well ... Peace brother!!!


Offline JustLearning

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If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #282 on: January 20, 2007, 08:48:24 AM »
Spezza set to return to different line    

Let's hope that Jason Spezza's skin is as thick as an elephant's.

Because sooner or later, with all the guff he has been taking in a city that prides itself on being a sophisticated hockey town, some young hockey players in the same predicament would probably say, "OK, enough is enough. If so many fans think I'm a liability and want me out of here, then trade me."

Who could blame him if this nonsense keeps up? Such action might not show much intestinal fortitude, but being slagged constantly can't exactly be a confidence booster, even if he is one of the team's top players. Spezza seems to have been taking it in shovelfuls since he first tried to make the team in 2001-2002 when Jacques Martin was coach. More than five years later, his hockey skills are still being called into question. Dumping on Spezza has become another team sport in this town. With the Senators having rebounded while he has been out with an injury, his detractors have been extremely vocal, suggesting on sports radio call-in shows and Internet chat rooms that the Senators don't need him.

The way some fans see it, the Senators' humiliating start and linemate Dany Heatley's early troubles in scoring goals this season had something to do with Spezza's play, even though he was one of the best players on many nights during that bleak period. He is still third in team scoring with 19 goals, 25 assists and 44 points -- 17 points ahead of the No. 4 guy, Mike Comrie -- even though he has missed the Senators' past 13 games.

There are various worries being bandied about concerning Spezza's return. The big fear is that Spezza will be reunited on the No. 1 line with Heatley -- the two have always played on the same line in Ottawa -- and captain Daniel Alfredsson. That would force Mr. Lunch Pail, centre Chris Kelly, out of the mix, and thus change the chemistry of this new-found scoring machine. Some fans think the change could turn Heatley into the robot he was on many nights during the prolonged slump.

Well, not to worry, for now.

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Offline Small Town

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #283 on: January 20, 2007, 11:36:56 AM »
I agree with the article.  It's about time we quit ragging on the kid and instead be supportive of his re-integration with the team and eventual return to his scoring ways.  He's in a really tough situation.  No one can reasonably expect his to be in top form after a long lay-off and combine that with playing on a new line.  There will be hiccoughs.  To be expected.  I can just see the wrath of future postings if and when Jason makes his first "error". 

The team is playing really well without him and Fisher.  They will be awsome when both are back in top form.  And timed just right for the playoff run.  Ya hoo!!

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Offline SzuperChicky

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #284 on: January 20, 2007, 01:14:04 PM »
Something I didn't even think of.  I know Mike Fisher is really well liked, and I don't deny his work ethic at all ... but why isn't anyone saying that Fisher could be a problem?  Sure he has great work ethic, but that doesn't mean he's liked in the dressingroom.  Again, hypothetically (I'm a bigger Fisher fan than Spezza).  They were both out around the same time and only one is getting the heat.  And what about Heatley taking fault for his own piss-pour actions.  Let's blame it on the other guy and not on the one who has the most control over himself.  Where's that Canadian grit we all heard of?  Oh, right, its Spezza's fault.

So I agree with the article and Small Town completely.
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Offline LaForge

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #285 on: January 20, 2007, 01:27:28 PM »
100% agreement.

Fisher will never take this kind of heat because he is the Ottawa Valley good old boy's poster player, and as such, it is ananthemic to speak ill of him.
Me, I love the guy, but he's had a disappointing season so far. I'd like to hear a little more of the "healthy constructive criticism" diverted from Spezza and towards Fish. 
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Offline bassman

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #286 on: January 20, 2007, 03:08:55 PM »
Quote from: That Article
fans who think the Senators don't really need Spezza back in their lineup and that he's not a No. 1 centre because of some defensive liabilities are ignoring the facts.

 :icon_agree: now quit ragging on the kid!  :dancerr:


Offline Metalhawk

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #287 on: January 20, 2007, 04:01:14 PM »
Man do I love those condescending articles that basically say "You agree with me, or you're an idiot".

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Offline SzuperChicky

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #288 on: January 20, 2007, 04:35:56 PM »
Man do I love those condescending articles that basically say "You agree with me, or you're an idiot".

 :dash2:

Well... you are. :icon_stirthepot:
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Offline Metalhawk

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #289 on: January 20, 2007, 05:19:08 PM »
Well... you are. :icon_stirthepot:

I've never tried to ban a fellow mod before...  :icon_stirthepot: :icon_stirthepot:
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Offline ncjahn

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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #290 on: January 20, 2007, 09:47:13 PM »
Vermette - Spezza - Fisher has the potential to be a killer line. If Fisher can find any of the finishing touch he seemed to have in the pre-season then we're doing really well for ourselves.

I think Spezza was showing earlier in the season that he can take a team on his shoulders and carry them - because he was for a while. There was games where Spezza was in on every goal and made plays to get things going. While I do agree that the article has the "agree with me or you're an idiot" sentiment behind it (which columnists have to be good at doing), it does have some valid points.
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Re: If he tanks with Fisher....
« Reply #291 on: January 21, 2007, 07:31:46 PM »
I think the media including broadcasters both tv and radio create a lot of the bad feelings towards players. Spezza brings some of it on himself but we have to remember this guy is still a kid, what is he 22 years old. I admit I'm not a big fan of his but he's a talent, he just needs to mature, that'll come, hopefully sooner than later.

I am personally looking forward to see how the line of Fisher-Spezza-Vermette work together. You've got size, speed, physcality, scoring the only ingredient we won't know about until they play a few games together i guess will chemistry. IMO If they click this team will be more offensively dangerous then last year's team.
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Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #292 on: January 21, 2007, 10:45:30 PM »
Spezza is a +3 right now. With a guy that is touted as such a great offensive player and for all the points he is on the ice for, he is on the ice for a lot of goals against as well. That makes him pretty much a wash doesn't it? The guy can be the flashiest player in the world, but if you are almost as responsible for as many goals in your own net as you are for goals in the other team's ... something needs to change.

Murray has commented in the media, and Martin's views on the subject were even more apparent. And I just don't see that Spezza is working on his game at all. He is a great skilled player - that is not in doubt. Spezza's problem lies between his ears. He seemingly ignores his coaches' plees to simplify his game and play a more team oriented game.

There are times to play a high risk creative game, and there are times you shouldn't. Spezza doesn't seem to have the ability to distinguish between when he should and when he souldn't. He just seems like the cocky kid, who in his mind is thinking, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, coach must be speaking to the guys who aren't as gifted as me," as Murray and the coaching staff speaks to him. Hell, that probably has been true most of his life, but he's in the NHL now.

Coddling the kid is not going to make him improve, gotta put the screws to him and hold him accountable. That is the only way people improve. I don't see that he is mature enough to hold himself accountable. There is always an excuse. Always a way he can brush it off.
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Offline DrDemento

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #293 on: January 22, 2007, 11:30:17 AM »
Vermette - Spezza - Fisher has the potential to be a killer line.

STUPID NAME THAT LINE ALERT

Vermette - Spezza - Fisher
The IR line - they are really crutch performers.

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Offline playertobenamedlater

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #294 on: January 23, 2007, 04:44:37 PM »
That is a fair account of an opinion ... but I was reacting to the blanket statement pinning him as 3 things I have never heard one person who plays/coaches/writes about him has even hinted at. I can accept that you see disturbing things in him. That is valid perhaps ... I disagree but I can see how you might say that. Like I said I do not go that far very often... in fact I do believe that is the first time I have ever gone off like that on here. I would have prefered if you had said something a little less definitive than he IS A, B and C. but oh well ... Peace brother!!!

Actually, what I said to the previous poster which set you off was not definitive. What I had said to the other poster was that just because he's Spezza's neighbour, does not mean that he is not a certain way. Hardly a definitive statement.
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Offline bassman

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #295 on: January 23, 2007, 06:01:57 PM »
Actually, what I said to the previous poster which set you off was not definitive. What I had said to the other poster was that just because he's Spezza's neighbour, does not mean that he is not a certain way. Hardly a definitive statement.
True which is why I prefaced my comment ... if I misread you sorry!

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Offline SensGuy

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #296 on: January 23, 2007, 06:15:14 PM »
Spezza is a +3 right now. With a guy that is touted as such a great offensive player and for all the points he is on the ice for, he is on the ice for a lot of goals against as well. That makes him pretty much a wash doesn't it? The guy can be the flashiest player in the world, but if you are almost as responsible for as many goals in your own net as you are for goals in the other team's ... something needs to change.

Murray has commented in the media, and Martin's views on the subject were even more apparent. And I just don't see that Spezza is working on his game at all. He is a great skilled player - that is not in doubt. Spezza's problem lies between his ears. He seemingly ignores his coaches' plees to simplify his game and play a more team oriented game.

There are times to play a high risk creative game, and there are times you shouldn't. Spezza doesn't seem to have the ability to distinguish between when he should and when he souldn't. He just seems like the cocky kid, who in his mind is thinking, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, coach must be speaking to the guys who aren't as gifted as me," as Murray and the coaching staff speaks to him. Hell, that probably has been true most of his life, but he's in the NHL now.

Coddling the kid is not going to make him improve, gotta put the screws to him and hold him accountable. That is the only way people improve. I don't see that he is mature enough to hold himself accountable. There is always an excuse. Always a way he can brush it off.
Are we watching the same player here?  Spezza, after getting boo'd at the start of the season, pretty much stopped with the turnovers and took the offense on his back and carried them.  This is the same guy that was our best player in the playoffs last year.  When are people going to get off his back?

And your +/- accusation is rediculous.  Are you saying Spezza is responsible for every goal against that he's out there for?  It doesn't add up at all.

Why can't people just understand you can't bottle up someone's creativity?  That's what Spezza's game is.  He may turn the puck over a little bit (not NEARLY as much as people say he does), but his creativity leads to much more chances for the Sens than against.
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Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #297 on: January 23, 2007, 07:06:30 PM »
Are we watching the same player here?  Spezza, after getting boo'd at the start of the season, pretty much stopped with the turnovers and took the offense on his back and carried them. This is the same guy that was our best player in the playoffs last year. When are people going to get off his back?

And your +/- accusation is rediculous.  Are you saying Spezza is responsible for every goal against that he's out there for?  It doesn't add up at all.

Why can't people just understand you can't bottle up someone's creativity?  That's what Spezza's game is.  He may turn the puck over a little bit (not NEARLY as much as people say he does), but his creativity leads to much more chances for the Sens than against.
First, it is an observation, not an accusation.

Second, it is a fact that he has been on the ice for three more goals than have been scored against 5/5. That my friend is called A FACT. To ignore a fact would just be rediculous (Gee, I can do that too! Wee that is so much fun!) Spezza is a lazy back checker and needs to improve that aspect of his game and he takes too many dumb chances. Am I blaming him for every goal - no. But you can't credit him for every goal as well - so that point is moot.

Third, the now infamous 'post booed' game was an example of just how good spezza can be. He simplified his game and played in both zones - for one game!

Why can a player not be creative and responsible? No one is saying Spezza shouldn't be creative - he just needs to know when to do it. Modano can do it. Forsberg can do it. Yzerman can do it. Sakic can do it. Richards can do it. Heatley can do it (without Spezza). Is Spezza too good to be expected to play a two way game - or is our precious little J.J. not up tp the task. Is that too much to ask of our Jassy Wassy? Should we just coddle him and not hold him acountable? Wouldn't want him to play up to his potential. Know what i think about not holding players accountable and expecting them to play to their full potential. It just doesn't add up at all.

Why is someone "on his back" for expecting him to play to his potential? Is he so special that he should not be treated the same as the other 500 hockey players in the NHL? The kid is a professional hockey player. He needs to be held into account. This isn't initiation hockey. If this is too much for some fans, I suggest that you just put on the red glasses, the Sens PJs and tell yourself everything is perfect.

I will continue to voice my opinion that I don't see Spezza playing to his full potential and saying that there is room for improvement. I don't know what to say to people who can't see that there is room for improvement in his game. Guess some people are more tolerent of mediocrity and the status quo and others would like to see our players improve so we can see a Stanley Cup banner being raised to the rafters.

Too many overly sensitive Sens fans these days.

Guess I'm geting kicked off the bandwagon again, eh!  :A_laughing_matter:
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Offline 1st rounder

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #298 on: January 23, 2007, 08:46:59 PM »
Spezza is a +3 right now. With a guy that is touted as such a great offensive player and for all the points he is on the ice for, he is on the ice for a lot of goals against as well. That makes him pretty much a wash doesn't it? The guy can be the flashiest player in the world, but if you are almost as responsible for as many goals in your own net as you are for goals in the other team's ... something needs to change.

Murray has commented in the media, and Martin's views on the subject were even more apparent. And I just don't see that Spezza is working on his game at all. He is a great skilled player - that is not in doubt. Spezza's problem lies between his ears. He seemingly ignores his coaches' plees to simplify his game and play a more team oriented game.

There are times to play a high risk creative game, and there are times you shouldn't. Spezza doesn't seem to have the ability to distinguish between when he should and when he souldn't. He just seems like the cocky kid, who in his mind is thinking, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, coach must be speaking to the guys who aren't as gifted as me," as Murray and the coaching staff speaks to him. Hell, that probably has been true most of his life, but he's in the NHL now.

Coddling the kid is not going to make him improve, gotta put the screws to him and hold him accountable. That is the only way people improve. I don't see that he is mature enough to hold himself accountable. There is always an excuse. Always a way he can brush it off.
I had posted this thought on another thread that with the Sens playing so well without Spezza and Fisher for that matter, I think if spezza does not want to play Murray's system, and sacrifice a little offense for defence, then he can send him a stern message by sitting him in the press box.

Something that he might have been reluctant to do before the injury.
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Offline SensGuy

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Re: THE OFFICIAL: Jason Spezza Thread (Too Many 2 Mention Merged]
« Reply #299 on: January 23, 2007, 09:58:09 PM »
I'm stunned.

Do some people have no memory beyond the last 15 games or so?  Do people not remember who our leading goal scorer was?  Who our leading point scorer was?  And now some think he should sit in the press box?  These are some of the strangest things I've ever heard.

Third, the now infamous 'post booed' game was an example of just how good spezza can be. He simplified his game and played in both zones - for one game!
One game?  Are you serious?

After putting up only 2 points in his first 5 games, Spezza had 42 points in just 31 games.  You aren't going to find very many people who are going to score at a higher rate than Spezza, but apparently some people will never be satisfied.  He's got his flaws, obviously, but if you don't accept him for what he is, a creative player, than obviously you will never be satisfied.  He's 23 freaking years old.

He was the teams offensive MVP up until he got injured.  He was becoming just as deadly a sniper as he was a playmaker.  And yet, people continue to complain about every little part of his game.  He's slowly made strides with his defensive game and in the faceoff circle to go along with his scary offensive game.  The turnovers have gone down since the start of the season, but they are always going to be there and you just have to accept that.  Jaromir Jagr leads the league in giveaways...does that make him any less of a player?  Creative players are going to try and create.  It doesn't always work, but you'll get more good than bad.

If some of you guys would really like to see him gone, I'm sure there would be 29 other teams that would kill to get a hold of him.
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