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Author Topic: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]  (Read 6708 times)

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Offline stone169

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2007, 01:10:23 PM »
I think it all depends on how well Toskala works out, although his save percentage really hasn't been all that great over the last two seasons.  Bell on the otherhand may be done.  21 points on the top line...nothing really great.  I think he peaked in his last season with Chicago.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 01:13:07 PM by stone169 »
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Offline stone169

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2007, 01:14:33 PM »
Quote from: Canuck28 on June 25, 2007, 01:10:00 PM
"This is another reason I hate the Leafs fans; they can NEVER admit when their team, or an aspect (Defence) sucks."  I think you better look in the Mirror dude, Ottawa fans are in denial about alot of things about the Sens too

Most fans are like that including Canucks fans.  Most of which who can't seem to see the lack of defensive depth and scoring depth that their team truly has.
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Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2007, 01:21:14 PM »
Quote from: stone169 on June 25, 2007, 01:14:33 PM
Most fans are like that including Canucks fans.  Most of which who can't seem to see the lack of defensive depth and scoring depth that their team truly has.

Ya, that is true. 
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Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2007, 02:00:09 AM »
Quote from: FrequentVisitor on June 24, 2007, 08:15:44 PM
What stats are you referring to? Shots against is probably the number one stat as far as determining the effectiveness of your defense and the Leafs gave up a lot less shots.

Not to beat a dead horse, but this subject came back to mind earlier todat and I just had to check the shots on goal.

Shots allowed:

Ottawa: 2475 = 30.18 per game
Toronto: 2302 = 28.07 per game

A difference of 2 shots per game. I certainly wouldn't say that the Leafs "gave up a lot less shots".
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Offline FV

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2007, 09:12:03 AM »
I meant over the course of the season but 2 a game certainly says the Leafs D is a lot better than some of you are giving them credit for.  I was only arguing because you all made it sound so cut and dried and it's not.  You may prefer your defence and that's fine but comments stating it doesn't matter who the Leafs have in net because of the crappy defence in front of them are just not true.

I love Volchenkovs game and Phillips is a good steady defencemen but my point was that putting the salaries aside the Leafs D is the least of their problems.

And anyone who says Gill is a slug didn't watch the Leafs too closely.  I was very impressed with him last season.  Especially as a penalty killer.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 05:55:05 PM by FrequentVisitor »
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Offline stone169

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2007, 10:13:26 AM »
The reason why the Sens averaged over 30 shots a game is because they were absolutely brutal during the first half of the season, espeacially in the first couple of months when Gerber was getting the majority of the starts.
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Offline sbaldrick

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2007, 10:13:38 AM »
The leafs D is the only good part of the whole team.  I said that going into last season and I will say it now.  Trading for Toskala was a mistake mostly because it doesn't help their biggest problem  The lack of scoring.  Even there great savior didn't score in the last 19 games of the year,  and he cares the time for the most part.
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Offline FV

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2007, 10:30:09 AM »
Quote from: sbaldrick on June 26, 2007, 10:13:38 AM
The leafs D is the only good part of the whole team. I said that going into last season and I will say it now. Trading for Toskala was a mistake mostly because it doesn't help their biggest problem The lack of scoring. Even there great savior didn't score in the last 19 games of the year, and he cares the time for the most part.

 For the most part I agree.  I think they also have a pretty good powerplay but 5on5 scoring has got to improve.
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Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2007, 01:15:35 PM »
Quote from: FrequentVisitor on June 26, 2007, 09:12:03 AM
I meant over the course of the season but 2 a game certainly says the Leafs D is a lot better than some of you are giving them credit for.  I was only arguing because you all made it sound so cut and dried and it's not.  You may prefer your defence and that's fine but comments stating it doesn't matter who the Leafs have in net because of the crappy defence in front of them is just not true.

I love Volchenkovs game and Phillips is a good steady defencemen but my point was that putting the salaries aside the Leafs D is the least of their problems.

And anyone who says Gill is a slug didn't watch the Leafs too closely.  I was very impressed with him last season.  Especially as a penalty killer.

I suppose that it's hard to shed a reputation, especially in the eyes of a rival's fans. The Sens are still believed to be push-overs by many Leafs fans I talk to.
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Offline taffey

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2007, 02:58:23 PM »
Quote from: Metalhawk on June 26, 2007, 01:15:35 PM
I suppose that it's hard to shed a reputation, especially in the eyes of a rival's fans. The Sens are still believed to be push-overs by many Leafs fans I talk to.

The Sens performance against the physically punishing Ducks didn't exactly help diminish that rep... :smily1263:
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Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2007, 03:01:59 PM »
Quote from: taffey on June 26, 2007, 02:58:23 PM
The Sens performance against the physically punishing Ducks didn't exactly help diminish that rep... :smily1263:

It doesn't make them push-overs. They had 3 physical series against the Pens, Devils and Sabres, and I certainly didn't see  them back off. They just weren't up to the same level as the Ducks.
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Offline Canuck28

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2007, 03:02:56 PM »
No silly....that series is too be blamed soley on poor reffing.........the NHL for allowing the hockey to go "back to the old NHL" ...and of course BOB COLE...........because there is no way Ottawa could ever be out played by another team.........I mean Gosh..........they are from Canada's capital don't'cha know !! 


Quote from: taffey on June 26, 2007, 02:58:23 PM
The Sens performance against the physically punishing Ducks didn't exactly help diminish that rep... :smily1263:
:A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter:
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Offline OS

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2007, 03:16:28 PM »
Quote from: taffey on June 26, 2007, 02:58:23 PM
The Sens performance against the physically punishing Ducks didn't exactly help diminish that rep... :smily1263:

How did your playoff series go.....  :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter:

And I think the Canucks went out in 5 against the Ducks too,hmm.  Without Luongo that one was over in 4, shorter with a mercy rule. 
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Offline Hearts3

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2007, 03:22:54 PM »
Quote from: Canuck28 on June 26, 2007, 03:02:56 PM
No silly....that series is too be blamed soley on poor reffing.........the NHL for allowing the hockey to go "back to the old NHL" ...and of course BOB COLE...........because there is no way Ottawa could ever be out played by another team.........I mean Gosh..........they are from Canada's capital don't'cha know !! 

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Offline Bonzai

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2007, 03:41:05 PM »
Quote from: Canuck28 on June 26, 2007, 03:02:56 PM
No silly....that series is too be blamed soley on poor reffing.........the NHL for allowing the hockey to go "back to the old NHL" ...and of course BOB COLE...........because there is no way Ottawa could ever be out played by another team.........I mean Gosh..........they are from Canada's capital don't'cha know !! 
 

Yeah, you've gotten to the bottom of it.... :smily677:

 :(
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Offline stone169

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2007, 04:56:58 PM »
Quote from: OS on June 26, 2007, 03:16:28 PM
How did your playoff series go.....  :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter: :A_laughing_matter:

And I think the Canucks went out in 5 against the Ducks too,hmm.  Without Luongo that one was over in 4, shorter with a mercy rule. 

Without Luongo the Nucks don't even make the post season.
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Offline work2play

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2007, 05:40:19 PM »
Like it or not Sens fans, the Leafs just got better in net.

Giving up that many picks is a steep price, but this does make the Leafs a better team going into the coming season.
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Offline FV

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2007, 05:48:17 PM »
Quote from: stone169 on June 26, 2007, 04:56:58 PM
Without Luongo the Nucks don't even make the post season.

And without Crosby the Pens don't make it and without Heatley the Sens don't make it etc. etc.....

I don't get your point.  Luongo is part of the team isn't he?
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Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2007, 08:09:37 PM »
Quote from: work2play on June 26, 2007, 05:40:19 PM
Like it or not Sens fans, the Leafs just got better in net.

Giving up that many picks is a steep price, but this does make the Leafs a better team going into the coming season.

I never said the Leafs didn't get better in nets, but that still doesn't address the rest of your needs.  JFJ has done nothing but patch holes with "hopefuls", instead of using his draft picks to help the team.  Like it or not, the Leafs will never amount to much unless you get rid of the old foggies and sign some real scoring talent.  And no, McCabe and Tucker don't count because they score MOST of their points on the PP.  The Leafs were something like -35 even-strength last season. 
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Offline bassman

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Re: Leafs aquire Toskala, Bell from Sharks [merged x2]
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2007, 08:17:29 PM »
Quote from: FrequentVisitor on June 26, 2007, 05:48:17 PM
And without Crosby the Pens don't make it and without Heatley the Sens don't make it etc. etc.....

I don't get your point.  Luongo is part of the team isn't he?

Loungo is certainly a part of the team but he is much more instrumental to their success than Sid or Dany are to their respective teams. Not trying to take anything away from Sid or Dany but that is just the way it is with goalies they play a lot more minutes and every one of their mistakes costs a goal. Martin Brodeur is a very large part of the Devils successes that's just the way it is with goalies like that. All that said it's still impossible to say what a team minus one player would have done because that one player would not simply be missing they would be replaced by someone else. If Sid gets hurt first shift of the season others get more ice time perhaps that kid who is just about ready for the bigs gets a chance and runs with it. The end result is you have a different set of circumstances so the result is impossible to predict.

I don't have a problem with a team relying a lot on a good goalie, as said he IS a part of the team and you have to build your team to win. Good goalies are certainly a plus.

Oh and yes the Leafs got marginally better with this move. a few more good moves and they just might make the playoffs this year.
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