Poll

Its it working or not

Yes
0 (0%)
No
5 (55.6%)
Yes but changes are needed
1 (11.1%)
We need a 40 bed treatment centre
3 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program  (Read 14418 times)

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Offline CupintheCapital

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2008, 09:48:01 AM »
One of the main facts of chronic addiction that is completely overlooked is this:

Recovery (if defined as total abstinance for 1 year) from addictions, NO MATTER the method ie 12 steps, treatement etc, has an overall success rate of approximately 3-4%! 

We are not talking about a disorder with a single causal factor, it is multicausal.

Addiction is currently defined as a "chronic , relapsing brain disorder".  Its not a lifestyle choice, its not a willful desire to flaunt norms, its a virtually untreatable disorder. 

A doctor interviewed by McLeans recently, made a really important point;  given that addiction is essentially a brain disorder, a doctor who diagnoses addiction  is currently releasing them to church basements to find God.  Certainly works for about 4% of addicts (who are typically , but not necessarily , middle class adults with a substantial history of non addictive living prior to the onset) but reflects the fact that AA/12 step philosophy has basically commanderred the addictions field on mass and stands in the way of alternate treatments that can work for others.  This is not a 12 step bash, its just the reality of addiction.

So, if we are still waiting for new treatment modalities and we know that addiction is a relapsing brain disorder, we need to re think our expectations of recovery.  Punitive measures, urged by ignorant stakeholders looking for "simple" solutions, simply result in pushing addicts further into their illness.  Sure, a few will "wake up" if punished but the VAST majority will not be able to recover simply because we are angry. 

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Offline momr

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2008, 09:59:40 AM »
One of the main facts of chronic addiction that is completely overlooked is this:

Recovery (if defined as total abstinance for 1 year) from addictions, NO MATTER the method ie 12 steps, treatement etc, has an overall success rate of approximately 3-4%! 

We are not talking about a disorder with a single causal factor, it is multicausal.

Addiction is currently defined as a "chronic , relapsing brain disorder".  Its not a lifestyle choice, its not a willful desire to flaunt norms, its a virtually untreatable disorder. 

A doctor interviewed by McLeans recently, made a really important point;  given that addiction is essentially a brain disorder, a doctor who diagnoses addiction  is currently releasing them to church basements to find God.  Certainly works for about 4% of addicts (who are typically , but not necessarily , middle class adults with a substantial history of non addictive living prior to the onset) but reflects the fact that AA/12 step philosophy has basically commanderred the addictions field on mass and stands in the way of alternate treatments that can work for others.  This is not a 12 step bash, its just the reality of addiction.

So, if we are still waiting for new treatment modalities and we know that addiction is a relapsing brain disorder, we need to re think our expectations of recovery.  Punitive measures, urged by ignorant stakeholders looking for "simple" solutions, simply result in pushing addicts further into their illness.  Sure, a few will "wake up" if punished but the VAST majority will not be able to recover simply because we are angry. 



You sound quite informed on the topic and I admit I am not.  But at least it does seem like the Provincial Government is paying attention and may now be offering to fund a treatment facility here

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/city/story.html?id=a0317bc7-ddfa-4d68-8ae2-e706eb1f8ba8

Its actually amazing to me that such facilities don't already exist. 

Offline CupintheCapital

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2008, 10:56:45 AM »
Its always good news if we are adding treatment beds.  It certainly does offer addicts an opportunity and is preferrable to jail or shelters. 

We will still have the remaining 96% of addicts to deal with though. 

I just want to qualify what I wrote with this:  I am no different than any other citizen in that no matter my understanding, tolerance or education, when confronted with certain behaviours from active street level addicts I get disgusted and angry.  There are some real A holes out there and if they got clean , you would have a clean A hole! 

This is a pretty emotional issue and I am NOT exempt from the emotions just because I have experience working with addicts.  So I don't want to look down on anyone for being upset and a little reactionary;  I just don't want people in this emotional state making serious decisions on how to address this issue.
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Offline Broken Bones

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2008, 11:55:37 AM »
Cup,

Not sure how people would react emotionally to what your saying, because I am not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you in support of the needle exchange program, or treatment centers?  I agree, addiction is disease like, i will not say it is a full out disease, but more disease like. I say that because it is curable, provided that the person truly does want help to get clean and has the proper system in place to ensure they stay clean.

A treatment facility is indeed a much better solution than simply putting addicts in jail, because while you say all you would get is a clean *******, there are people out there that are genuinely nice but have become desperate in order to feed their addiction and in turn become ******. There is nothing saying that these people once clean can not become a better person.

Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2008, 04:45:23 PM »
You want to see people at their worst?  Watch the show Addiction.  I'm not sure what channel it's on but it's disturbing to say the least (depending on what addiction they are covering).  It shows you the lengths that some people will go to in order to feed their addicition.  It also goes to show you that the addiction not only affects the person using, it also affects everyone around them (friends, family, co-workers, etc...).

Add to all that the dirty and discarded needles you get an explosive emotional situation on your hands in which people are on both sides of the fence in terms of programs and centres.

All in all, there are SO many factors that I am sure go into rehabilitation besides the obvious willingness of the participant. 


Offline CupintheCapital

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2008, 08:41:01 AM »
Cup,

Not sure how people would react emotionally to what your saying, because I am not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you in support of the needle exchange program, or treatment centers?  I agree, addiction is disease like, i will not say it is a full out disease, but more disease like. I say that because it is curable, provided that the person truly does want help to get clean and has the proper system in place to ensure they stay clean.

A treatment facility is indeed a much better solution than simply putting addicts in jail, because while you say all you would get is a clean *******, there are people out there that are genuinely nice but have become desperate in order to feed their addiction and in turn become ******. There is nothing saying that these people once clean can not become a better person.

Hey BB,

I was just saying that I too run into addicts whose overall attitude and behaviour is so entrenched (and likely was entrenched before addiction too over) that even treatment and abstinence will do little to alter their behaviours.  Thats all, and yes there are many, many fine people who are addicted and a succesful treatment allows them to bloom again, a very amazing sight indeed.

And ya, it is really only a disease "like" situation, disorder is a better word and is used by the world community more often these days. 

Almost forgot, I am definately for the needle exchange.  It is only one piece of the puzzle but an important one.  Coercive approaches can work for some but most addicts need to be attracted towards recovery and the studies bear that out. One of the major problems with the exchange right now is that we are seeing a steady increase in needle users in this city that is outpacing the harm reduction targets ie.  the numbers we would like to see in terms of slowing Hep C etc are not showing up in some studies ---the only way to address this would be to follow the advice of David Salisbury and forget about a one for one exchange and concentrate on distribution. 

Ultimately we will never be addiction free but we can reduce the harm and promote health at the same time as we build new treatment centres and new treatment modalities. 
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Offline Sugar J.Hyde

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2008, 02:57:00 PM »
Two words: J-oke.  I think it's one word, whatever.

Offline winterfan

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2008, 06:46:24 PM »
To those who suppot the way the program is run i have one question.Do you not think the public should be portected in some way.

Offline Sugar J.Hyde

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2008, 12:26:40 PM »
Yes.  The public should have their own exchange program.  1 book for 1 gun.

Offline Dagwood

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2008, 01:24:46 PM »
Yes.  The public should have their own exchange program.  1 book for 1 gun.

Sure... Let's put more guns on the streets.  We can all be like the Mama who takes her child to Soccer practice with a 45 strapped to her belt. Of course more guns in the hands of regular folks could only me more guns in the hands of desparate people looking for thier next fix.   :thumbsup:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=5876937

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Offline FV

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2008, 01:28:43 PM »
I think he meant the other way around Dags.
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Offline Dagwood

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2008, 01:30:58 PM »
Oops... My bad.  I read it the other way .....

Sorry SJH.  Still......that photo pisses me off to no end to think there are idiots like her doing the same everyday.
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Offline moxie

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2008, 01:43:23 PM »
Is that Dog Bounty Hunter's mother?

He could drink like hell, he could fight like hell.

Offline Sugar J.Hyde

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Re: Ottawa Needle Exchange Program
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2008, 10:31:17 AM »
Oops... My bad.  I read it the other way .....

Sorry SJH.  Still......that photo pisses me off to no end to think there are idiots like her doing the same everyday.

No I was just tryin to make a "Colbert".  You know, ignorant humour. 

Obviously, putting more guns on the street isn't a serious option.  Having said that, Books for Guns does kind of have a ring to it.