Author Topic: Bryan Murray's Shopping List  (Read 106259 times)

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Offline moxie

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Offline cloud9er

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #521 on: July 31, 2008, 06:29:35 PM »
Does anyone on this board know Spezza well enough to comment on how grown up he is????  I'm pretty sure that's a no.

Here's the thing, he makes some bad choices on the ice that result in turnovers.  According to my information, which is The Hockey News, here's the story on turnovers.  Sorry, I don't have last year's information, all of this is from 2006-2007.

Ahem....

League leaders in turnovers:

Jagr - 126
JASON SMITH - 109
Lang & McCabe - 104
Kovalchuk & Thornton - 102
Kozlov - 97
Hemsky - 96
Ovechkin & Vanek - 95
Chara - 94
St Louis & Zubov - 92
Komisarek - 91
Boyle - 88
Markov - 87
Blake & Datsyuk - 86
Selanne & Souray - 85

The list ends there.  So Spezza wasn't on that list, but did you notice how many big names are?  Here's the thing, when you play a lot, and you're the kind of player who has the puck a lot, you turn the puck over a lot.  This is amplified by the fact that Spezza will only shoot once for every 5 times he touches the puck in the offensive zone, he'll pass the rest of the time.  Second, he's a career +87.  Yes, he's played on the top line, but he's also better than a point a game for his career also.  I understand the knock on his defensive game to a degree, but you don't have Jason Spezza on your team to kill penalties, just like you don't have Mike Fisher on your team to score hat tricks.

I am also one of the older members, and I don't understand the "lack of accountability" knock on the guy.  He's got good point stats, good +/-, he's an unselfish centreman who is pretty good in the faceoff circle and on top of this, he's only 25 years old.  I must not be seeing something about him that the detractors are. 

Would someone who is not a Spezza fan please clarify what SPECIFICALLY about his game you think is worthless?  And don't start spouting about his defensive game, it's not as bad as you all say it is.  You don't get +'s for PP goals, so he must be doing something right defensively if he's a +87 for his career.  I'm not attacking anyone, I just want to see the detractors side of the story, so fill me in please.

Offline go_sens_go55555

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #522 on: July 31, 2008, 06:37:57 PM »
they have no reason. You can't be a defensive liability if you score more then you let against...well i guess you can be, but if you're plus 87(thats pretty much all even play) then you're doing more then enough to make up for it.
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Offline PuckFancy

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #523 on: July 31, 2008, 06:56:34 PM »
Let's hope Jason Smith has worked on reducing his turnovers...Yikes!  :shock:

Offline stiffler1000

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #524 on: July 31, 2008, 09:34:13 PM »
Turnover's aside, I'd still rather have Smith on the ice in the last minute of a one goal game than Spezza. Good players take risks and make mistakes, and they are on the ice more than most of their teammates, but Jason Smith acts like a man and is commited to his team and Spezza acts like a child and I am on the fence as to whether he is commited or not.
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Offline cloud9er

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #525 on: July 31, 2008, 10:21:51 PM »
Stiff, I agree, Smith does act like a man, but that's because he is a man.  Spezza is only now officially in his mid-20's, he's still a very young man who has been under a pretty intense spotlight since he was a teenager.  In my opinion, he grew up a lot this year, and I think we'll see him continue to grow in the coming years.  I personally don't mind that he's giggling during interviews, because it shows that he's having fun.  The second he's not having fun, his performance on the ice is likely to suffer.  I personally feel that he is committed, and I think that Brian Murray feels the same way.  Murray's a pretty savvy dude, and I don't think he would have signed him to a contract that takes him up until he's 32 years old if he felt he wasn't committed to being a team guy. 

I'm personally hoping that Spezza comes through this year with some jaw-dropping numbers, and that he becomes a complete player in the process.  Maybe that can eventually silence his critics.  I just think that there aren't a lot of other guys that I would rather have centering my team's top line.

Offline cloud9er

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #526 on: August 01, 2008, 12:06:58 AM »
Another thought, back on the original subject of "Brian Murray's Shopping List"....

I really hope that we're going to hear the end of these idiotic Khabibulin/Seabrook/Barker trade rumors.  I was so happy when that three-way deal with Chicago was proven to be a lot of talk and rhetoric.  The only thing that Khabibulin offers the Senators that they don't already have is a 6.5million dollar cap hit for a mediocre goalie.  He was great, he's not anymore.  Please folks, don't get drawn in by the name, he was excellent 5 years ago when Tampa won it all, and yes, when the playoffs start this year, that's how long it will have been.  He's done nothing since, and would be no better than what the Senators already have.

As for the two Chicago defenders, I'd be surprised if Chicago moved either of them, considering their ages and the investment they've already made in developing them into NHL players.  In my opinion, they could get a lot more back than Neil and a draft pick for a first rounder like Barker, and Seabrook's not moving unless the offer is just stupid.

I do think that Murray will still add a defenseman, and I'm praying that it will not be Andrej Mezsaros.  However, it does seem that he's the most likely candidate at this point in my opinion.

Last thing, if Murray does make a trade, I'm betting that it involves players and teams that no one has mentioned.  It won't be Bieksa, or Salo, or the Chicago guys, but it will be a solid player, and that's one you can take to the bank.  That's just Murray's way.

Offline PuckFancy

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #527 on: August 01, 2008, 12:42:36 AM »
I'd still love to have Seabrook here, and to a lesser extent, Barker. The team would really benefit from having one of those two on the ice.

Offline stiffler1000

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #528 on: August 01, 2008, 02:08:23 AM »
cloud9er - I could agree with you more, and I do hope he proves me wrong and becomes that awesome superstar he could be, but I am running thin on patience. The mid twenties excuse only holds for so long.
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Offline vegas_shark

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #529 on: August 01, 2008, 03:09:14 PM »
I do think that Murray will still add a defenseman, and I'm praying that it will not be Andrej Mezsaros.  However, it does seem that he's the most likely candidate at this point in my opinion.

Last thing, if Murray does make a trade, I'm betting that it involves players and teams that no one has mentioned.  It won't be Bieksa, or Salo, or the Chicago guys, but it will be a solid player, and that's one you can take to the bank.  That's just Murray's way.

I was serious about McLaren. There was a rumor a few weeks ago that Murray had an interest. There is talk today that Mezsaros may be considering the KHL (could be for leverage only) so if you're looking to add an veteran, affordable ($2.5M) D-man, McLaren could be your guy. In San Jose he's the most likely victim of the cap now that we've signed Clowe for $1.6M and are over the cap. Signing Rob Blake for $5M makes McLaren expendable. He had some knee problems that kept him on the shelf for a while last season and he doesn't skate well anymore but if he's healthy, he could be a good pick-up for you.

BTW Moxie, I loved the KMac highlight hits but you left out my personal favorite on Petr Cajanek (2nd clip on the reel).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4oDRmrjPIs

Offline PHJ314

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #530 on: August 01, 2008, 03:24:21 PM »
I was serious about McLaren. There was a rumor a few weeks ago that Murray had an interest. There is talk today that Mezsaros may be considering the KHL (could be for leverage only) so if you're looking to add an veteran, affordable ($2.5M) D-man, McLaren could be your guy. In San Jose he's the most likely victim of the cap now that we've signed Clowe for $1.6M and are over the cap. Signing Rob Blake for $5M makes McLaren expendable. He had some knee problems that kept him on the shelf for a while last season and he doesn't skate well anymore but if he's healthy, he could be a good pick-up for you.

BTW Moxie, I loved the KMac highlight hits but you left out my personal favorite on Petr Cajanek (2nd clip on the reel).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4oDRmrjPIs

Problem with Mclaren...he's not a puck moving defenceman...and that's pretty much all that Murray is looking to add on the back end.
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Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #531 on: August 01, 2008, 04:07:40 PM »
Here's the thing, he makes some bad choices on the ice that result in turnovers.
Sorry, I've been through this a million times ... it is about more than turnovers, and don't discount his lack of defensive play because there is a lot of improvement that needs to be made. When it comes down to it, there is a lack of accountability and a lack of competitiveness that despite his offensive numbers, hurts the team. There is a reason he was on the 4th line at the world's. There are finer points to hockey, some people see it, some don't. Look beyond the flash and sizzle, and look at what type of effort Mr. Spezza puts in. That's his problem.
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Offline Sensfanwest

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #532 on: August 01, 2008, 04:15:36 PM »
Here's what Im thinking is stalling the Meszaros ordeal: Nobody is sending Mesz. and offer sheet. I think that's what Murray might be waiting for. If the offer is high enough, he'll take the draft picks and let the guy walk. If it's low enough, all Murray has to do is match the offer and he can get him signed for less than what Mesz wants.

Offline moxie

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #533 on: August 01, 2008, 04:18:11 PM »
I was serious about McLaren. There was a rumor a few weeks ago that Murray had an interest. There is talk today that Mezsaros may be considering the KHL (could be for leverage only) so if you're looking to add an veteran, affordable ($2.5M) D-man, McLaren could be your guy. In San Jose he's the most likely victim of the cap now that we've signed Clowe for $1.6M and are over the cap. Signing Rob Blake for $5M makes McLaren expendable. He had some knee problems that kept him on the shelf for a while last season and he doesn't skate well anymore but if he's healthy, he could be a good pick-up for you.

BTW Moxie, I loved the KMac highlight hits but you left out my personal favorite on Petr Cajanek (2nd clip on the reel).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4oDRmrjPIs

I'll take both McLaren and Clowe off your hands.  :laugh2: I love both of those guys.
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Offline cloud9er

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #534 on: August 01, 2008, 04:37:47 PM »
Sorry, I've been through this a million times ... it is about more than turnovers, and don't discount his lack of defensive play because there is a lot of improvement that needs to be made. When it comes down to it, there is a lack of accountability and a lack of competitiveness that despite his offensive numbers, hurts the team. There is a reason he was on the 4th line at the world's. There are finer points to hockey, some people see it, some don't. Look beyond the flash and sizzle, and look at what type of effort Mr. Spezza puts in. That's his problem.

Sorry man, I wish I could agree with you.  I do look past the flash and sizzle, I really just can't see the lack of accountability and competitiveness that you're talking about.  Could you provide an example or two?  I'm not trying to antagonize you at all, I just want to know specifically what you mean.

And I don't buy this whole 4th line at the world championships thing either.  That was a very deep team that went all the way to the finals of that tournament.  Even being on that team means that you have something to contribute.  If he was a boob with a complete lack of accountability and competitiveness, then they would have taken someone else instead and just left him off the team.

Offline p-dogger

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #535 on: August 01, 2008, 04:39:44 PM »
I really hope that we're going to hear the end of these idiotic Khabibulin/Seabrook/Barker trade rumors.  I was so happy when that three-way deal with Chicago was proven to be a lot of talk and rhetoric.  The only thing that Khabibulin offers the Senators that they don't already have is a 6.5million dollar cap hit for a mediocre goalie.  He was great, he's not anymore.  Please folks, don't get drawn in by the name, he was excellent 5 years ago when Tampa won it all, and yes, when the playoffs start this year, that's how long it will have been.  He's done nothing since, and would be no better than what the Senators already have.

Must keep in mind that Khabby had some injury troubles the last few years and was playing on a TERRIBLE 'Hawks team (with the exception of last year).

To me, he's a risk well worth taking. I have no confidence in Gerber's ability to rise up and be anything other than a pretty average goalie. At least with Khabibulin there is a track record of having reached that next gear.

As for the two Chicago defenders, I'd be surprised if Chicago moved either of them, considering their ages and the investment they've already made in developing them into NHL players.  In my opinion, they could get a lot more back than Neil and a draft pick for a first rounder like Barker, and Seabrook's not moving unless the offer is just stupid.

The Neil+ for Barker/Seabrook deal could make sense if it is part of the Khabby for Gerber deal, as the Sens would get "credit" for taking back significant extra salary. I agree that under normal circumstances the deal seems odd for Chicago. But considering that they are currently over the cap, just signed Brian Campbell to a huge deal, and have 3 D prospects - two of which are already getting paid decent salaries - it is reasonable to think that one could be available.

Offline OS

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #536 on: August 01, 2008, 09:35:17 PM »
I'd still love to have Seabrook here, and to a lesser extent, Barker. The team would really benefit from having one of those two on the ice.

The Hawks are over the cap, we can hope. 

Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #537 on: August 06, 2008, 06:24:51 PM »
Sorry man, I wish I could agree with you.  I do look past the flash and sizzle, I really just can't see the lack of accountability and competitiveness that you're talking about.  Could you provide an example or two?  I'm not trying to antagonize you at all, I just want to know specifically what you mean.
Homie don't play that game. If you watched 82 regular season games and 4 playoff games and didn't see it, pointing out a couple of examples isn't going to help you any.

Quote
I don't buy this whole 4th line at the world championships thing either.  That was a very deep team that went all the way to the finals of that tournament.  Even being on that team means that you have something to contribute.  If he was a boob with a complete lack of accountability and competitiveness, then they would have taken someone else instead and just left him off the team.
Getting demoted from the second line to 4th line with drastically reduced minutes isn't a sign of anything? He's lucky it was the world's with some players not being able to attend and not the olympics. If you will remember, he was left off the olympic team.
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Offline s3nsfan75

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #538 on: August 07, 2008, 07:55:58 AM »
I'm so tired of the repetitive rhetoric.  Can't the season BEGIN already, or can't they sign someone or something, to give these boards a new topic of conversation.

Offline stone169

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Re: Bryan Murray's Shopping List
« Reply #539 on: August 07, 2008, 10:35:28 AM »
I'm tired of all this talk about Khabibulin, that he'd be our saviour and lead us to the promise land.  The Bulin wall fell a long time ago.  I'd rather stick with Gerber than a guy who's stats have been steadily going down hill.
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