Poll

Should it be up to canada to protect them

Yes
2 (22.2%)
No
7 (77.8%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Non Citizens  (Read 24026 times)

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Offline winterfan

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Non Citizens
« on: July 18, 2008, 08:10:27 AM »
I am in a  debate with a few people over this.For what ever reasont hey feel canada should help non citizens that run into legal trouble etc.I have a very big probleam with helping non citizens am alone on this.

Offline Broken Bones

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 08:43:56 AM »
Are you talking about people who hold absolutely no Canadian Citizenship and reside around the world, or non Canadian Citizens who live and work in Canada and are permitted to do so by law, or people who live outside of Canada yet hold Canadian Citizenship?

Offline winterfan

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 09:36:05 AM »
Are you talking about people who hold absolutely no Canadian Citizenship and reside around the world, or non Canadian Citizens who live and work in Canada and are permitted to do so by law, or people who live outside of Canada yet hold Canadian Citizenship?

From the people i talked to there exzact words are this.Canada should protect any non citizen that does not have a canadian citizenship.

Offline Broken Bones

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 09:42:38 AM »
If that is the case, I would have to absolutely disagree. We have a deteriorating medical system, current Canadians within Canada are having difficulty getting the help they need when it comes to social and economical issues, etc.  I have no issues helping other countries, with aid, but not something such as legal representation.

Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 10:24:51 AM »
The way I take this arguement is to mean do we protect immigrants who hold a Canadian citizenship but decide to return to their country of origin and get into legal trouble.  Take for instance that journalist that returned to Iran only to get arrested and beaten in custody.  I DO NOT condone her treatment but I also do NOT support the Canadian government launching a legal battle against the government of Iran over this.  That journalist made the concious decision to go to Iran knowing full well the dangers of doing so (especially as a femal journalist).  Then we have this Khadr thing.  The guy spent VERY LITTLE time actually in Canada after his birth.  He was caught after the battle in which he threw a grenade that killed a US soldier.  Why should we as a country bend over backwards to help those who only use us as a safe haven for their activities?  They throw our freedoms in our face only to come crying when they need help because they got caught doing something illegal.

Another thing to look at is those who come here only to engage in illegal activities from the get-go.  Every time I see a story in the paper about a massive grow-up bust or whatever, those involved are almost always 90% Vietnamese.  Why don't we have a system where it's automatic deportation back to the country you threw away in order to live the "good life" in Canada.  If you don't value what we have here, why should we help you now?

Offline winterfan

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 10:38:30 AM »
Jason
The debate i am in they feel people here not legal should have the same rights.

Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 11:13:57 AM »
Jason
The debate i am in they feel people here not legal should have the same rights.

Ok, I disagree with them then.  The rights and privileges are paid for by taxes.  If you are not a Canadian citizen you shouldn't expect to have us take care of you.  Now, with that said, you can't just stand and watch someone die in front of you.  They should be helped and then sent on their way. 

Of course, that above doesn't take into accoun the varioius charities and organizations out there that work off of sponsors and whatnot, but a lot of them are funded by the government too. 

What we need, if we don't already have it, is something like the US Marshals and their Project Watchdog (I think).  They rounded up something like 16,000+ illegals in their latest sweep. 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 11:16:22 AM by Jasonf6 »

Offline Broken Bones

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 11:22:22 AM »
Keep in mind now Jason there are people in Canada who are legally allowed to be here yet are not Canadian citizens.  Those people should be receiving the same rights and protection as Canadian citizens as they came here and followed the necessary process to be in and work in Canada.

Offline Bonzai

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 12:11:35 PM »
I'm a bit confused.  Should residents withiin Canada who are here illegally (no visa) be afforded the same rights as a non-canadian who went throught the proper channels or is a refugee.  If that is so, categorically not.  The only right they should be afforded is the right to be picked up by custom agents/police, detained and shipped back to their homeland.  This person does not have a right to be here nor the option to work nor seek medical care however if this person had a severe medical emergency they would be treated on our dime.  If someone wants to be here they should go through the proper channels and quite que jumping

Offline moxie

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 12:38:34 PM »
Many of the people who are legally allowed to live and work here but not citizens are NOT refugees. Many students have study permits, then go on to get post-graduate work permits/etc.
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Offline Special J

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 11:13:09 AM »
I don't get this question.  If this is about legal representation, then everyone in our courts needs legal representation.  Irregardless of how they got there.
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Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 02:49:45 PM »
I dont exzactly under stand the quoustion.



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Offline Broken Bones

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 08:34:14 AM »
Me neither, because as it is put out there one can have two understandings as to what is being asked. Non citizens being those in Canada but are not citizens, be it they are here legally or not, or non citizens as in those around the globe and have no connection to Canada.

Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 05:55:27 PM »
Keep in mind now Jason there are people in Canada who are legally allowed to be here yet are not Canadian citizens.  Those people should be receiving the same rights and protection as Canadian citizens as they came here and followed the necessary process to be in and work in Canada.

Do you mean those 13 or 17 people busted in that HUGE ASS drug ring bust that are all from Vietnam?  I'm not in favour of letting people immigrate here only to do what they've done.  Hell, of most of the drug rings that the media has reported on, damn near 90% of the people involved are from Vietnam.  Chine deported a Canadian for just mentioning Tibet (in a huge banner hung from a building mind you), why don't we just deport these pot growers? 

I'm all for protecting those who immigrate here, contribute to society, and don't take what they have for granted.  But not for one second will I be ok with people coming here only to live the life of crime like that drug ring did.  Spend the $3,000 per person to fly them back to Vietnam and save the tax payers the millions it's going to cost to keep them in prison.

Offline Broken Bones

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 06:23:36 PM »
Do you mean those 13 or 17 people busted in that HUGE ASS drug ring bust that are all from Vietnam?  I'm not in favour of letting people immigrate here only to do what they've done.  Hell, of most of the drug rings that the media has reported on, damn near 90% of the people involved are from Vietnam.  Chine deported a Canadian for just mentioning Tibet (in a huge banner hung from a building mind you), why don't we just deport these pot growers? 

I'm all for protecting those who immigrate here, contribute to society, and don't take what they have for granted.  But not for one second will I be ok with people coming here only to live the life of crime like that drug ring did.  Spend the $3,000 per person to fly them back to Vietnam and save the tax payers the millions it's going to cost to keep them in prison.

Because our laws are innocent until proven guilty, in order for that to happen everybody has a right to a fair trial.

Offline psahlgren

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 07:36:18 PM »
there are people in Canada who are legally allowed to be here yet are not Canadian citizens.  Those people should be receiving the same rights and protection as Canadian citizens as they came here and followed the necessary process to be in and work in Canada.
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Offline FV

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 07:51:00 PM »
Friggin' Swedes are taking over!!!   :laugh2:
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Offline butterfly_style

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 09:58:28 AM »
. . . why don't we just deport these pot growers? 
I'm all for protecting those who immigrate here, contribute to society....
I guess it depends on your definition of "contribution to society" :mrgreen:

Offline psahlgren

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 11:24:22 AM »


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Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2008, 03:43:37 PM »
Because our laws are innocent until proven guilty, in order for that to happen everybody has a right to a fair trial.

Oh for sure, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that after the length of the sting, the cops have enough to prove them guilty.  And it's not like they are the first Vietnamese led grow-op we've seen. 

However, once they are proven guilty, ship them back.