Poll

Should it be up to canada to protect them

Yes
2 (22.2%)
No
7 (77.8%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Non Citizens  (Read 23071 times)

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Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2008, 11:04:02 PM »
I don't know anybody that wants Sharia Law here. Not family, not friends, not ANY Muslim I have come into contact with in this country over my 10.5 years living here. So stop the bullshit. No Muslim is knocking on your door every weekend or calling you while you're eating your dinner and asking you to voice your support for Sharia Law.

I don't know what rock you have been living under but it was brought up not too long ago in Ontario (Toronto area I believe) about Sharia Law so how about YOU stop the bullshit.

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Its just me personally I do get annoyed reading online about people getting sick with Muslims wanting x and y. YOU don't know any Muslims! Stop painting the quiet majority with the same brush as the loud minority. 

How in the hell do you know who I do and don't know?  I actually do know some muslims.  Hell, I spent a great amount of time in the military and a few of my friends were muslims.  Quiet majorty?  You really think Canadians everywhere are alright with the horde of immigrants coming here and taking advantage of our freedoms all the while talking smack about how they hate it.  If they hate it so much, LEAVE.  And before you go off about how I don't know shit, I watched a show Immigration and how they round up people with warrants and shit.  On that very show was an immigrant who said plainly on camera how she hates this country, yet there she was living it up WAY better than she would in her home country. 

Newsflash for ya, Canadians aren't as cosey as you may think in terms of immigration.  Nobody will say anything for fear of offending the immigrants who DO contribute and actually do like it here. 

Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2008, 11:11:30 PM »
And while on the subject

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/20/prayer-dispute.html

Muslims workers want different breaks in order to be able to pray at the right time during Ramadan. Again, while it would be nice for the supervisors to allow it, there is no legal requirements in the States (just like in Canada) to do so.

Man, if you were to give every employee of a large organization like that their own "religiously themed" break during the day you'd be lucky to have more than 5 people at one time actually working.  Don't get the breaks you want on the job?  Quit.  You signed a contract knowing full well the number of breaks and their duration before you started working.  Don't like that?  Look up the regulations that are available online for every level of government.  Still don't like that?  Too bad. 

Just off the top of my head I think if you work say 9 - 5 you are supposed to get two 15-min paid breaks and one 1-hr lunch that isn't paid.  Of course, shift workers are different as well as other non-typical time slot workers. 

Different area, same situation.  Do you think it fair that smokers get smoke breaks while non-smokers get to keep working?

Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2008, 12:40:27 AM »
"Having something against Muslims and Jews" sounds pretty accusatory to me.

At the end of the day though, I don't put too much weight in what Doc says on this subject. He believes he's the God of foreign policies knowledge, or whatever, when ultimately he's just opinionated from a Palestinian point of view. No more or less knowledgeable than the average Joe.

What does myself being of Palestinian ancestry have to do with the topic at hand?






"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline FV

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2008, 12:54:39 AM »
What does myself being of Palestinian ancestry have to do with the topic at hand?

Why are you bothering with this?

Reminds me of the conversation I had with two older broads at the Legion a couple of weeks back.  They tried to convince me that Sikhs couldn't wear turbans in the Legion.  I told them if that was true I would quit immediately.  Turns out they were wrong and just a pair of racists.
Proud member of the P.P.A. since 2008.

Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2008, 12:57:48 AM »
As a manager I've always tried to accommodate employee's religious beliefs.  I even found a room for some Muslim staff to go pray in.

And you didn't really have to do that. Ask a Muslim, they will say they believe of real reward for such treatment. Hearing stories like this really warms my heart. I, would like to give you sir a very big hug. Hearing stories of individuals going the extra mile for the sake of tolerance is really something special.






"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2008, 01:00:06 AM »
What does myself being of Palestinian ancestry have to do with the topic at hand?

Just look back at the Mid-East thread. You have your views on what the issues are, while people from here who don't see/hear the same reports see things in a different way.

Similar to how some opinionated Leafs fans see the Alfredsson stick incident as a mockery, an insult while Sens fans see it from another point of view as a light-hearted joke made at the expanse of Sundin, a very a good friend of his.
"A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you donít need it"

Offline FV

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2008, 01:10:44 AM »
And you didn't really have to do that. Ask a Muslim, they will say they believe of real reward for such treatment. Hearing stories like this really warms my heart. I, would like to give you sir a very big hug. Hearing stories of individuals going the extra mile for the sake of tolerance is really something special.

Well, thank you but I am also going to disappoint you unfortunately.  Part of the reason that I did that was because we had a lot of clients visiting our offices and we had some Muslin staff members coming out of their cubicles for prayer and my motivation was actually two-fold.  I wanted to give them privacy but I also wanted to get them out of the hallways.  I have no issue with it personally but we are still a business and I thought finding these colleagues somewhere to go was more appropriate.  And seriously, I don't mean I was trying to hide anyone., because I wasn't.

Also, I really dislike the usage we tend to use of the word "tolerance".  Nobody needs to be just "tolerated"!  That sounds like we're just putting up with people.  It shouldn't be like that.  Just accept and live and let live.
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Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2008, 01:15:45 AM »
And you didn't really have to do that. Ask a Muslim, they will say they believe of real reward for such treatment. Hearing stories like this really warms my heart. I, would like to give you sir a very big hug. Hearing stories of individuals going the extra mile for the sake of tolerance is really something special.

In that case, where's my hug? On many occasions at work, I give access to a closed room to one of my above-mentioned Muslim friend so he can pray in peace.  :P

Look Doc, at the end of the day, I like you a lot too, but we really don't see eye to eye on a few issues, mostly foreign/religious issues. It doesn't make me a racist (or intolerant) person as you've been hinting, or even ignorant (trust me, I do my fair share of reading on that subject, among many others), it simply makes me of a different opinion than you about what should/could/should not be done, and unfortunately, that's one of the subjects that tends to bring out the worst out of people, as evidenced already in this thread.

Now, can't we all just look for boats?  :mrgreen:
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Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2008, 01:53:06 AM »
Quiet majorty?  You really think Canadians everywhere are alright with the horde of immigrants coming here and taking advantage of our freedoms all the while talking smack about how they hate it.  

Care to elaborate how this 'horde of immigrants' takes advantage of your freedoms?

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And before you go off about how I don't know shit, I watched a show

You watched a show, you say. Well then, I do apologize.

 
 
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On that very show was an immigrant who said plainly on camera how she hates this country, yet there she was living it up WAY better than she would in her home country.

Rounding up a sample from the population of any country will return a bunch of responses in line with: "I hate this country". It does not mean they actually hate that country, and it doesn't mean they are against what that country stands for. It more than likely just means that they are frustrated about the state they are in. Frustration can come from issues ranging from family, work, financial issues, etc... Anybody can get frustrated to the point of saying things they likely don't mean, things like: "I hate this country", "I hate my proff", "I hate Lalime". An immigrant in a new environment is likely starting from scratch. It is therefore easy to get frustrated and easier to vent frustration by saying "I hate it here". But that does NOT mean they hate their new country. I came here 10 years ago and I hated it. I was only 15 and I was removed from the country I grew up in. I lost all my friends. I hated Canada. But I would have hated just about any other country I moved to. What initially made a difference and made me feel better and more welcome is the staff & peers at York Memorial High school in North York. And I love Canada now. I would not want to go back to live in Jordan even though I love it there too because my life is here.

That said, I have to ask you to suppose for any number of reasons circumstances lead you to move to say Jordan, permanently. How would you feel your first month there?

Is it that difficult for people to put themselves in other people's shoes and try and understand? Its easier in the armchair, isn't it?


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Newsflash for ya, Canadians aren't as cosey as you may think in terms of immigration.

I believe that citizens of this multicultural nation exhibit some of the most tolerant and 'polite', as Rose nicely put it, attitudes of any other nation. And that is why I stand proud to call myself Canadian.


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Nobody will say anything for fear of offending the immigrants who DO contribute and actually do like it here.  

Some people don't contribute until they get back on their feet. Moving to a new country like I said is not easy. There are however, some who do take advantage of the system. Some who stay on welfare for as long as possible. But I really think that this issue is not widespread and is just amplified and over-hyped by some. Still wrong nonetheless.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 02:23:43 AM by Docawesome »



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2008, 02:15:49 AM »
Well, thank you but I am also going to disappoint you unfortunately.  Part of the reason that I did that was because we had a lot of clients visiting our offices and we had some Muslin staff members coming out of their cubicles for prayer and my motivation was actually two-fold.  I wanted to give them privacy but I also wanted to get them out of the hallways.  I have no issue with it personally but we are still a business and I thought finding these colleagues somewhere to go was more appropriate.  

I study business at OttawaU and I would do the same thing.


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And seriously, I don't mean I was trying to hide anyone., because I wasn't.

lol
I know.

Although, I would probably want to hide them. Because we don't talk during prayer and the prayer looks odd to those unfamiliar with it. And most are shy about praying in public anyway.

Quote
Also, I really dislike the usage we tend to use of the word "tolerance".  Nobody needs to be just "tolerated"!  That sounds like we're just putting up with people.  It shouldn't be like that.  Just accept and live and let live.

I agree. Religious debate always makes me uncomfortable.



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2008, 02:42:27 AM »
In that case, where's my hug? On many occasions at work, I give access to a closed room to one of my above-mentioned Muslim friend so he can pray in peace.  :P

Look Doc, at the end of the day, I like you a lot too, but we really don't see eye to eye on a few issues, mostly foreign/religious issues. It doesn't make me a racist (or intolerant) person as you've been hinting, or even ignorant (trust me, I do my fair share of reading on that subject, among many others), it simply makes me of a different opinion than you about what should/could/should not be done, and unfortunately, that's one of the subjects that tends to bring out the worst out of people, as evidenced already in this thread.

Its just internet debate. I hold nothing against you. Religious/political debate is like a hockey fight. Everything is forgotten afterwards.

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Now, can't we all just look for boats?  :mrgreen:

And where exactly do you plan on going? The lakes are frozen in a couple months.



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2008, 02:45:58 AM »
Its just internet debate. I hold nothing against you. Religious/political debate is like a hockey fight. Everything is forgotten afterwards.

And where exactly do you plan on going? The lakes are frozen in a couple months.

We'll have to trust our friends from the other side of the Equator to hook us up, I suppose. That, or a road trip to California. Sounds good just about now...  :woohoo
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Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2008, 02:56:09 AM »
We'll have to trust our friends from the other side of the Equator to hook us up, I suppose.

You mean with warm tropical air? Not gonna happen. If you thought last winter was bad, this one's going to be a 'Blockbuster' winter:
La Nina Domino Effect

There could be palm trees growing in the arctic and we'll still get burried in snow come january.

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That, or a road trip to California. Sounds good just about now...  :woohoo

ya I'd get on the phone with my travel agent, if I were you.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 03:16:46 AM by Docawesome »



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Special J

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2008, 01:00:48 AM »
I don't like this topic and it's made me somewhat uncomfortable but I have to say my piece.  I'm not calling anyone racist but I'm reading some comments that I think are really close minded.

I think I'm glad I bailed on this thread when I did.
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Offline Sugar J.Hyde

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2008, 02:53:58 PM »
Who cares if they're citizens or non-citizens, if they need help they should get it.

Offline RideauDreaming

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2008, 08:53:46 PM »
Yes.  Look at what Australia and I think the Netherlands do.  If you don't have skills they are looking for, go elsewhere.  In the Netherlands they say you are coming to OUR country, if you don't like our culture and way of doing things then go elsewhere.  If you want to try and force your culture on us, then go elsewhere.  I wish we did that.  Tired of hearing Muslims cry about not having their own Sharia Law here.  Guess what.  YOU came HERE.  Live with it.  That's not to say I don't value other religions and whatnot, just don't try and force it on me.  Don't ask to change my way of life because something in your religion clashes with how I do things. 

Australia has various classes of immigration. Genuine refugees do not need to have skills, but the "skilled migrant" class does.

Sharia law really can't operate in line with the western legal tradition. That's why it can't be accepted. It's the same for indigenous customary law, it can only operate in small matters and even still it goes against the western concept of "equality before the law". The same goes for certain customs for some muslim immigrants which cannot be accepted (violence against women, cousins marrying etc).

I believe in helping people too but tolerance must go both ways.
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