Poll

Should it be up to canada to protect them

Yes
2 (22.2%)
No
7 (77.8%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Non Citizens  (Read 24223 times)

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Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2008, 10:50:06 AM »
Would you apply that to the refugees too Dags?  If you don't have any skills don't bother coming?

Yes.  Look at what Australia and I think the Netherlands do.  If you don't have skills they are looking for, go elsewhere.  In the Netherlands they say you are coming to OUR country, if you don't like our culture and way of doing things then go elsewhere.  If you want to try and force your culture on us, then go elsewhere.  I wish we did that.  Tired of hearing Muslims cry about not having their own Sharia Law here.  Guess what.  YOU came HERE.  Live with it.  That's not to say I don't value other religions and whatnot, just don't try and force it on me.  Don't ask to change my way of life because something in your religion clashes with how I do things. 

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2008, 01:01:27 PM »
Yes.  Look at what Australia and I think the Netherlands do.  If you don't have skills they are looking for, go elsewhere.  In the Netherlands they say you are coming to OUR country, if you don't like our culture and way of doing things then go elsewhere.  If you want to try and force your culture on us, then go elsewhere.  I wish we did that.  Tired of hearing Muslims cry about not having their own Sharia Law here.  Guess what.  YOU came HERE.  Live with it.  That's not to say I don't value other religions and whatnot, just don't try and force it on me.  Don't ask to change my way of life because something in your religion clashes with how I do things. 

 :icon_bowdown2: :icon_bowdown2: :icon_bowdown2: :icon_bowdown2: :icon_bowdown2:

Amen brother. AMEN!
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Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2008, 03:11:40 PM »
Yes.  Look at what Australia and I think the Netherlands do.  If you don't have skills they are looking for, go elsewhere.  In the Netherlands they say you are coming to OUR country, if you don't like our culture and way of doing things then go elsewhere.  If you want to try and force your culture on us, then go elsewhere.  I wish we did that.  Tired of hearing Muslims cry about not having their own Sharia Law here.  Guess what.  YOU came HERE.  Live with it.  That's not to say I don't value other religions and whatnot, just don't try and force it on me.  Don't ask to change my way of life because something in your religion clashes with how I do things. 

Whoa... who is trying to change your life?!!!?
I don't know anybody that wants Sharia Law here. Not family, not friends, not ANY Muslim I have come into contact with in this country over my 10.5 years living here. So stop the bullshit. No Muslim is knocking on your door every weekend or calling you while you're eating your dinner and asking you to voice your support for Sharia Law. You're tired of hearing Muslims talk about Sharia? Tell me where exactly is it --geographically speaking-- where you get into contact with a whole bunch of Muslims who are now apparently getting under your nerve about Sharia Law.

Also, this WAS your country before I came here. Its now YOUR country and MINE, that is what my passport seems to imply. I have as much right by law to do whatever I wish. So, I do whatever shit I feel like doing whenever I feel like doing it. And if I feel like protesting outside I'll do it too. I'm not forcing anything on you. I really don't care what you do or believe in, think... none of my business. Just like my life is in none of your business.

Its just me personally I do get annoyed reading online about people getting sick with Muslims wanting x and y. YOU don't know any Muslims! Stop painting the quiet majority with the same brush as the loud minority. 



« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 03:16:02 PM by Docawesome »



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2008, 03:44:58 PM »
Whoa... who is trying to change your life?!!!?
I don't know anybody that wants Sharia Law here. Not family, not friends, not ANY Muslim I have come into contact with in this country over my 10.5 years living here. So stop the bullshit. No Muslim is knocking on your door every weekend or calling you while you're eating your dinner and asking you to voice your support for Sharia Law. You're tired of hearing Muslims talk about Sharia? Tell me where exactly is it --geographically speaking-- where you get into contact with a whole bunch of Muslims who are now apparently getting under your nerve about Sharia Law.

Also, this WAS your country before I came here. Its now YOUR country and MINE, that is what my passport seems to imply. I have as much right by law to do whatever I wish. So, I do whatever shit I feel like doing whenever I feel like doing it. And if I feel like protesting outside I'll do it too. I'm not forcing anything on you. I really don't care what you do or believe in, think... none of my business. Just like my life is in none of your business.

Its just me personally I do get annoyed reading online about people getting sick with Muslims wanting x and y. YOU don't know any Muslims! Stop painting the quiet majority with the same brush as the loud minority. 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/09/09/sharia-protests-20050909.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126181967010_31/?hub=CTVNewsAt11

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126472943217_26/?hub=TopStories


And want to talk about people expecting our culture to change? What about that vocal minority that has essentially forced retailers not to use the word Christmas anymore. That Happy Holidays & Seasons Greetings bullshit is now being force fed down our freakin' throats because of people of other religions who feel insulted when wished a Merry Christmas and raised enough of a stink about it.

Or what about the Jewish community right now who is unhappy because the upcoming elections fall on one of their holidays? Last time I checked, this was a normal Canadian business day, hence perfectly justifiable for an election. But for some reason, they expect our everyday life to cater to a foreign holiday.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 03:55:06 PM by Metalhawk »
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Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2008, 04:15:03 PM »
Same old Metal. Your knowledge of other cultures is lacking. So, whats left? Prejudice. No offense but you bring nothing in terms of content, same content as your posts in the mid east thread. Really, no offense. I like you but foreign policy/culture stuff you yourself told me you did not know much about and also you said you didn't like long drawn out posts (I'll find the quotes if you like).

I knew you had something against Muslims but Jews now too?

« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 05:07:47 PM by Docawesome »



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline rose

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2008, 04:23:46 PM »
Canada is based on Christian-Judeo principles.  The current government calling an election on a Jewish holiday IS - and should be - insulting to Jewish people in this country.  Sorry...bad move there, IMHO.

I have no problem with other religions being here and I do think it is a slim minority of people who demand that we change our ways to accommodate theirs.  Really.  Political correctness runs amok because we let it, IMHO.  I say Merry Christmas whenever I feel like it and I have never ONCE had anyone complain to me or give me a dirty look, etc.  As far as stores, etc. caving into the pressure, I would love to hear where the so-called pressure came from.  If it is some special-interest groups and the retailers caved then those who want "Merry Christmas" back into the stores should put equal pressure for it to return.  If you are not willing to, then don't complain about the special interest groups....complain about the retailers.

I don't like discussions that paint broad strokes regarding, particularly, religion.  But you gotta KNOW that if the government had called the election for Thanksgiving Monday or the first day of Ramadan (sp?), there would have been LOTS of  noise.  As there should be.  Respect for religious holidays of all kinds should be observed.
"If you can't make up your mind, 'What the hell' is usually the right answer."  Ellen Reid Smith

Offline Docawesome

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2008, 04:53:15 PM »
I fully agree.

And I say "Merry Christmas" to Christians at OttawaU or when I'm working. I say it because it feels good to say it. "Happy Holidays" is kind of lame. I don't feel offended at all when a Christian wishes me --a Muslim-- a "Merry Christmas". They don't know that I don't celebrate it. I love Jesus as much you love him but we don't celebrate birthdays, not even Mohammad's.



"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes.  The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.  The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2008, 05:06:02 PM »
Same old Metal. Your knowledge of other cultures is lacking. So, whats left? Prejudice. No offense but you bring nothing in terms of content, same content as your posts in the mid east thread. Really, no offense. I like you but foreign policy/culture stuff you yourself told me you did not know much about and also you said you don't like long drawn out posts (I'll find the quotes if you like).

I knew you had something against Muslims but Jews now too?



And same old Doc who sees everything as racism. Wow, those generalizations are fun, aren't they?.  :shake:

But I would like you to explain to me where my "knowledge of other cultures is lacking". How does me not agreeing with the Jewish community who don't like that the CANADIAN elections are called on their FOREIGN holiday a lack of knowledge?

How is me not agreeing with retailers bending to a very small vocal minority who don't want to hear the word Christmas a lack of knowledge?

And now I have something against Muslims? Just because I don't want life in this country to be changed to accommodate the demands a minority (I don't care if it's Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, whatever) who immigrate here doesn't make me a racist, as you are implying (as usual).

Once you explain to me where my knowledge is lacking, then maybe I'll start taking your posts on the subject seriously. Until then, I see them as nothing but propaganda by someone who sees everyone who doesn't agree with his own views as intolerant.
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Offline rose

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2008, 05:21:21 PM »
Have to agree to disagree with you about the elections, Metal.  Expecting Canadian citizens of any religion to vote on their religious holiday(s) is not only intolerant but rude.  Unless, of course, you don't want people to vote for some reason.  Yes...there are advance polls and I am sure that ardent voters with democratic principles will get out their vote.  But in terms of the government, who set the date, it's just wrong, IMHO.  There are plenty of days in the year that do not fall on religious holidays to hold elections.  And that is not bending-over-backwards for religious people who came here from another land...it's just common courtesy.
"If you can't make up your mind, 'What the hell' is usually the right answer."  Ellen Reid Smith

Offline Budkiller

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2008, 05:36:02 PM »
But I would like you to explain to me where my "knowledge of other cultures is lacking". How does me not agreeing with the Jewish community who don't like that the CANADIAN elections are called on their FOREIGN holiday a lack of knowledge?

For the record, Islam and Judaism (and their observances) are not "foreign."  To say that suggests that they are (or should be) celebrated in countries other than ours.  Both are practiced in dozens of nations and by tens of millions of people.  People should be free to responsibly practice whatever they want provided it doesn't break any [of Canada's] laws.

However, since we are on the topic, our government and its policy, law and (eep) scheduling should be entirely secular.

Offline rose

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2008, 05:47:38 PM »
For the record, Islam and Judaism (and their observances) are not "foreign."  To say that suggests that they are (or should be) celebrated in countries other than ours.  Both are practiced in dozens of nations and by tens of millions of people.  People should be free to responsibly practice whatever they want provided it doesn't break any [of Canada's] laws.

However, since we are on the topic, our government and its policy, law and (eep) scheduling should be entirely secular.

I agree with you.  But I think that in a country that is known for being so "polite", it's not a stretch to respect other's religious holidays for something as inclusive as a federal election.  Particularly with low turn-outs often complained about after the election has taken place.
"If you can't make up your mind, 'What the hell' is usually the right answer."  Ellen Reid Smith

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2008, 05:52:37 PM »
For the record, Islam and Judaism (and their observances) are not "foreign."  To say that suggests that they are (or should be) celebrated in countries other than ours.  Both are practiced in dozens of nations and by tens of millions of people.  People should be free to responsibly practice whatever they want provided it doesn't break any [of Canada's] laws.

However, since we are on the topic, our government and its policy, law and (eep) scheduling should be entirely secular.

You see, that's not the way I see it. To me (and again, the following doesn't make me a racist, regardless of what SOME people here think), the question is quite simple: is Sukkot recognized in Canada as an official holiday? Yes or no? No, therefore it's a foreign holiday. It doesn't mean Jewish citizens can't celebrate it in Canada, but should something like an election be called on that day, sorry to say, but too bad. Sure, the government could be considerate and not call it on that day, but it was. Ill thought, sure. Anything else, give me a break.
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Offline Budkiller

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2008, 05:56:35 PM »
I agree with you.  But I think that in a country that is known for being so "polite", it's not a stretch to respect other's religious holidays for something as inclusive as a federal election.  Particularly with low turn-outs often complained about after the election has taken place.

No, it's not a "stretch"...but where do you draw the line?  Which religious observances make the list?  Which don't?

Offline rose

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2008, 06:03:05 PM »
No, it's not a "stretch"...but where do you draw the line?  Which religious observances make the list?  Which don't?

I understand your point but I doubt that there is a religious holiday being observed every day of the year.

With that said, had the present government just stuck with their "fixed" date, then I am guessing we would not be having this discussion. :icon_hiding2:
"If you can't make up your mind, 'What the hell' is usually the right answer."  Ellen Reid Smith

Offline Budkiller

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2008, 06:06:09 PM »
You see, that's not the way I see it. To me (and again, the following doesn't make me a racist, regardless of what SOME people here think), the question is quite simple: is Sukkot recognized in Canada as an official holiday? Yes or no? No, therefore it's a foreign holiday. It doesn't mean Jewish citizens can't celebrate it in Canada, but should something like an election be called on that day, sorry to say, but too bad. Sure, the government could be considerate and not call it on that day, but it was. Ill thought, sure. Anything else, give me a break.

Metal - I don't think anyone's implying that you're "racist," but there is a tone of intolerance in the way you dismiss other religions.  Although I agree that they have no place in the way Canada is governed, it is irresponsible for us to favour one religion (and its observances) over others... as they relate to "official holidays."

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2008, 06:26:59 PM »
Metal - I don't think anyone's implying that you're "racist,"

Re-read Doc's post. And I've heard that from him before too. He actually believes I'm racist.


Quote
but there is a tone of intolerance in the way you dismiss other religions.

It's not intolerance, really. Simply a small belief of "religious seclusion". I don't expect the Iraqi or Saudi, or Japanese, or Israeli, etc government to respect Christian holidays when they make decisions about running their countries, the same as I don't think the Canadian government should take decisions based on non-official religions in this country.

Unfortunately, some people see that as racism, which couldn't be further from the truth. I get along great with people of at least 3 other religions just on top of my head as well as of at least 5 different ethnicities, again, that's just on top of my head.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 06:30:09 PM by Metalhawk »
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Offline Budkiller

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2008, 07:54:14 PM »
Re-read Doc's post. And I've heard that from him before too. He actually believes I'm racist.

I don't know.  "Racist" is a reeeaally strong word and I'm not sure Doc has gone so far as to label you like that..

Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2008, 10:20:33 PM »
I don't know.  "Racist" is a reeeaally strong word and I'm not sure Doc has gone so far as to label you like that..


"Having something against Muslims and Jews" sounds pretty accusatory to me.

At the end of the day though, I don't put too much weight in what Doc says on this subject. He believes he's the God of foreign policies knowledge, or whatever, when ultimately he's just opinionated from a Palestinian point of view. No more or less knowledgeable than the average Joe.
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Offline Metalhawk

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2008, 10:25:30 PM »
And while on the subject

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/20/prayer-dispute.html

Muslims workers want different breaks in order to be able to pray at the right time during Ramadan. Again, while it would be nice for the supervisors to allow it, there is no legal requirements in the States (just like in Canada) to do so.
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Offline FV

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Re: Non Citizens
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2008, 10:55:35 PM »
As a manager I've always tried to accommodate employee's religious beliefs.  I even found a room for some Muslim staff to go pray in.

I don't like this topic and it's made me somewhat uncomfortable but I have to say my piece.  I'm not calling anyone racist but I'm reading some comments that I think are really close minded.

There are people in this country that are Muslim or whatever and as long as they are Canadians they have the same rights as you or I.  The "Merry Christmas" debate is dumb.  No one should feel uncomfortable saying it and I've never been made to feel that way.  And just as Christian Canadians should be able to celebrate their religious holidays, so should people of other faiths.

I'm actually a Unitarian Universalist so we celebrate and appreciate all religious holidays though unfortunately my work won't let me take all those days off.   :laugh2:
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