Author Topic: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body  (Read 2542 times)

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Offline work2play

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2011, 04:22:56 PM »
Your point about having a young ref/older ref on the ice at the younger ages is a good one.  Back when I was a ref assigner for a large soccer club, since there was only one ref on the field, I set up a mentoring system with my older refs to 'cover' young refs from the sidelines.  They went in street clothes and identified themselves to the on-field ref at the half to discuss what happened in the first half, answer questions, point out missed calls/good calls, etc.  The senior refs were paid for their time doing this and it also required that they file a (brief) report of the young ref's assignment so we could track their progress.  This was also useful for the younger refs when they were working with volatile coaches/parents.  The older ref would also make his position known at the half to the coaches and the message was sent for them to "calm down" or "I am reporting your behaviour" or "Get your parents in line", etc.  I have to admit, it made a big difference in our retention rates of younger refs.  It took me a couple of years to convince the Executive of the club to actually pay for refs to attend games as mentors but they eventually saw the advantages of doing so.  Throwing young people 'to the wolves' is not a good idea if you want consistency in reffing and/or to retain reffing corps.
One of the baseball associations I used to umpire for had this type of mentoring for young officials.  It was excellent and if more associations would do this (in all sports) then the officiating kids get would be better and more consistent.

Being mentored in this way made me a better umpire.  Not so much at making the calls (I was always pretty good at that), but it definitely made me better at managing the game and not allowing myself to be intimidated by the adults.
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Offline work2play

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2011, 04:28:24 PM »
The problem now though is what is accepted as a "check". The standard by which checking is taught and officiated has dropped to an unacceptable level. The checking that parents are complaining about isn't even checking. Its charging, boarding, roughing, etc infractions that aren't being called because the 15 year old reffing the 11 and 12 years olds has decided to "let them play" and some coach has taught his kids to intimidate the other team and is encouraging them to annihilate other players rather than check to make a play.
Exactly!  These things got called when I was a kid.  I remember being taught how to skate a player off into the boards, not to crush them but to take body position and come away with the puck.  How to throw a proper shoulder and hip check, and how to take one.  All from the time I started playing (I didn't play non contact hockey until I was an adult and joined a beer league).
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Offline rose

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2011, 04:59:23 PM »
One of the baseball associations I used to umpire for had this type of mentoring for young officials.  It was excellent and if more associations would do this (in all sports) then the officiating kids get would be better and more consistent.

Being mentored in this way made me a better umpire.  Not so much at making the calls (I was always pretty good at that), but it definitely made me better at managing the game and not allowing myself to be intimidated by the adults.

Definitely the way to go...as long as the youth association is willing to pay the price.  In the longterm, however, it makes the games overall better and more consistent not to mention safer.  And the intimidation factor was virtually eliminated as a reason for my junior refs to leave the pool which was the #1 reason for the turnover.
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Offline OS

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 10:33:43 PM »
Gloucester Basketball does it that way to.  There was always a seasoned official overseeing two courts and even at the half they would give the refs feedback and pointers. 

Offline rose

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2011, 09:38:56 AM »
Wasn't sure that another thread was required for this information, but seemed as good a place as any.....the Ontario Major Junior HL announced yesterday that players will be using "softer" gear this year in an attempt to cut down on serious head injuries (Don Cherry should be elated with this announcement since he's been advocating for years about the "armour" players wear contributing to head injuries).  They also added automatic game penalties for goalies that engage in fighting along with two-game suspensions added on automatically for such.  Also heavier suspensions for intentionally targeted hits to the head.
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Offline Jasonf6

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2011, 10:36:04 AM »
They also added automatic game penalties for goalies that engage in fighting along with two-game suspensions added on automatically for such.  Also heavier suspensions for intentionally targeted hits to the head.
Do they mean the goalie v. goalie fights that happen when brawls take place or goalies just having enough of the hacking on them so they fight the offending player?

Offline rose

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2011, 11:13:58 AM »
Do they mean the goalie v. goalie fights that happen when brawls take place or goalies just having enough of the hacking on them so they fight the offending player?

Goalie versus goalie fights.  They want to end the goalies going cross-ice to pair off in fisticuffs during brawls.  At last, that's the way I read it.
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Offline rose

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 04:54:22 PM »
Dave Branch is going to be on the Afternoon Scratches on the Team 1200 shortly for two segments.  I can only assume he will be talking about the rule changes announced yesterday.
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Offline rose

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2011, 06:28:11 PM »
On the topic of the 'softer' equipment, Branch said it will involve the shoulder pads, forearms and elbow pads.  He said that the coaches, GMs and parents were very pleased.  And he said it was done for safety purposes.  To paraphrase "The reality is most of our players never make it to the pro leagues and we want them to enjoy a long life when they are done with hockey."  It's difficult to argue with him.
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Offline Billy_Muckwalt

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2011, 11:37:41 AM »
So, to clarify, it's just house league?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 11:42:24 AM by Billy_Muckwalt »
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Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2011, 11:03:25 AM »
So, to clarify, it's just house league?
The non-checking is house and I believe 'select' teams in the GTA are also affected (we don't have select teams in the Ottawa area).
 
I really like what USA hockey did. They lowered the age for contact hockey to Atom and increased the age of checking to Bantam at both house and competitive levels. That way the kids learn the skills (tracking, angling, pinning) rather than just trying to kill each other out on the ice.
 
PS- if you're a hockey parent you should watch the Brian Burke video near the bottom of the page.
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Offline Dagwood

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2011, 12:14:10 PM »
The non-checking is house and I believe 'select' teams in the GTA are also affected (we don't have select teams in the Ottawa area).
 
I really like what USA hockey did. They lowered the age for contact hockey to Atom and increased the age of checking to Bantam at both house and competitive levels. That way the kids learn the skills (tracking, angling, pinning) rather than just trying to kill each other out on the ice.
 
PS- if you're a hockey parent you should watch the Brian Burke video near the bottom of the page.
I Like the US System by a long shot.  My argument has always been, and I told this to the NMHA reps when my son was playing....
What will happen is these Select or if I may "Rich Kids" will get all the skills they need to make contact and body check throughout their development, but regular kids who come up through House League will never get used to it until one day....god forbid, thier Hockey Skills surpass that of the Elite crowd and suddenly find themselves playing with kids who have multi-years of development under the Checking system.  Well News flash... Can anyone take a wild "out of the box" guess as too what could happen?
 
Now I ask you,  Does that sound like something parents really want to see thier kids exposed too...or would one rather have thier child learn from the time they can figure out what an Off Side is?
My Kids was always at least 50 lbs heavier than other kids in his divisions growing up. He was a big lad what can I say.  He never saw contact until one day he got called up to a House "A" team who was playing in a tournament in Metcalf.  Well fortunate for me, because he was a big kid he could handle the hits, although he would fall down every single time because he didn't know how to brace for the hit....but every frigging kid on the other teams were taking runs at him because of his size.  Thank god he never got hurt and when he did finally make it to a full contact team "Bantam" I think..... He was the one laying out the hits when kids would try to run him. He would stand there, watch them coming at him...then at the last second drop his shoulder into them... 99% of the time the other kid was laying on his back looking up at the ceiling.  :thumbsup:
But he would still fallover because once again, never had to learn how to brace for open ice hits.
Now...what if your guy is a little feller at ages 12 - 15.  There are some big size differences in that age group.
To me, it's all about the skills that should be taught, not who the frig can afford the $1,500 - 3,000 Team budget. :icon_banghead:
 
And may I add, Kid superstars at age 8, 9 or 10 are not usually the superstars when they reach 14, 15 or 16.
So why is it those youngsters would benefit from something, they may in fact never need later in life when the HouseLeaguers develop and pass them in the Skills department. Whereas the House Leagueres at that young age will in fact always be behind the curve after year 1.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 12:18:12 PM by Dagwood »
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Offline Billy_Muckwalt

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2011, 06:56:47 PM »
You can still teach your kid the fundamentals of contact hockey regardless of what league they are in. There's plenty of hockey schools and course to do it if you can't yourself.

In my experience if you are in your teens and slugging it out in house league your odds of going to a contact league or competitive hockey are slim to nil from my experience. I think in 15 years of minor competitive hockey we had maybe 4 people come on our team from house. We have so many kids in minor hockey in this country.

Also, it will prevent your goon who cant play from running kids and ruining the game. Every league has a couple. They are big oafs that can't skate, pass or shoot but they just run around trying to thunder kids.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 07:56:32 PM by Billy_Muckwalt »
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Offline Dagwood

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2011, 05:30:05 PM »
You can still teach your kid the fundamentals of contact hockey regardless of what league they are in. There's plenty of hockey schools and course to do it if you can't yourself.

In my experience if you are in your teens and slugging it out in house league your odds of going to a contact league or competitive hockey are slim to nil from my experience. I think in 15 years of minor competitive hockey we had maybe 4 people come on our team from house. We have so many kids in minor hockey in this country.

Also, it will prevent your goon who cant play from running kids and ruining the game. Every league has a couple. They are big oafs that can't skate, pass or shoot but they just run around trying to thunder kids.

Of course there are always hockey schools, but sometimes money dictates what a parent can and cannot contribute, the politics of select teams in general and god knows what else that could stunt the development of those kids.  Those are the players I feel are denied the opportunity because they don't know how to play a checking game when they get a little older and thus won't do well at tryouts other than try to buzz around with thier heads down and not get hit.
At least Contact is still allowed but that must mean bump and rub.
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Offline FV

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2011, 06:00:21 PM »
Personally I think non contact should be the exception, not the rule.  Most kids want to hit and if they don't hopefully there is a non contact league nearby for them. 
 
Allowing rep players to do it but not houseleague players is B.S.  Most houseleague players want to hit as much as the rep players.
 
I've been involved in hockey for a very long time and I have always been frustrated how the system works.  Kids start when they are between 4 and 6 years old.  A 5 year old born in January is miles ahead of a kid born in December.  Thus the January kid would shine just enough to get asked to play rep.  From that point on he is in the rep system.  The December child gets slotted in houseleague and as he matures and gets better his chances of knocking another kid out of rep is next to impossible. 
 
I've seen a 15 year olds houseleague player that went to rep tryouts, was the best player on the ice and got cut.  His last scrimage he scored 4 goals in a 4-1 win and got cut 5 minutes later.  It becomes a big club and you become so close to the other parents nobody wants to break up their little clique and let the new kid and new Dad into the mix.  The politics of hockey is crazy.
 
I remember when my kid was 17/18 and all the rep players that didn't want to play rep anymore because they didn't want to put in the time started playing houseleague and except for the rare kid, didn't stand out at all. 
 
BTW, none of this is based on anyone in my family.  I just coached both rep and houseleague and it's just my observations. 
 
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Offline Billy_Muckwalt

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2011, 04:27:39 PM »
 
Quote
It becomes a big club and you become so close to the other parents nobody wants to break up their little clique and let the new kid and new Dad into the mix.  The politics of hockey is crazy..

This is very, very true. Its the same group from year to year following their kids. On the flip side however it's my experience that parents want their kid to be on the winning team and as long as it doesn't involve their child, don't mind new blood (for the most part). What you say holds true for the majority.   
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 04:30:03 PM by Billy_Muckwalt »
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Offline OS

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2011, 05:17:33 PM »
Quote
And may I add, Kid superstars at age 8, 9 or 10 are not usually the superstars when they reach 14, 15 or 16.

So true.  My son is quick but he also hit puberty a bit earlier than others and was the dominant guy in the league from 11 to 13.  After that his height topped out at 5'6", the other kids got bigger, stronger and some quicker. 

Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2011, 09:02:45 PM »
A 5 year old born in January is miles ahead of a kid born in December.  Thus the January kid would shine just enough to get asked to play rep.  From that point on he is in the rep system.  The December child gets slotted in houseleague and as he matures and gets better his chances of knocking another kid out of rep is next to impossible.
This is actually quite an interesting point. I read an article recently about this. In fact this carries through all levels of hockey and something like 2/3 of NHL players were born in the first 1/3 of the year (between January and April). The same article I read also stated that September-December babies did not do as well in school because they were in some cases almost a full year younger than their classmates.
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Offline thirstymoose_2000

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2011, 09:13:38 PM »
Also, it will prevent your goon who cant play from running kids and ruining the game. Every league has a couple. They are big oafs that can't skate, pass or shoot but they just run around trying to thunder kids.

You just described 90% of the hitting in house league. It's not about making a hockey play or gaining possession of the puck (as is the case in rep hockey) - it is about enjoying the hitting itself and the puck has become secondary.
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Offline OS

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Re: Bodychecking banned by Ontario hockey body
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2011, 09:32:19 PM »
You just described 90% of the hitting in house league. It's not about making a hockey play or gaining possession of the puck (as is the case in rep hockey) - it is about enjoying the hitting itself and the puck has become secondary.

And unfortunately encouraged by to many coaches.