Author Topic: 2012 Federal Budget (Read 1484 times)

Sasquatch · « **on:** April 05, 2012, 02:45:25 PM »

Has anyone posted about this or do we steer clear of the political banter in order to keep the peace around here.

Link
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/29/federalbudget-flaherty-hilights.html

Great, no more penny, so everything gets rounded up....

Retirement age goes to 67

Deregulating Environmental Assessments on Oil and Mining... TERRIBLE. I work in Nat.Res and the standards set in the EA's right now are already so minimal, and the mining companies dont even meet those standards.
But Harper wants the oil sector to grow 75% in the next year alone.... My God.

There is also a reported 400 Health Canada jobs being cut, and up to a 40% cut in funding to Scientific Technical jobs.

Im just curious what everyones take on this is.

I dont have enough info as to which types of jobs are being cut (clerks, secretaries, assistants, managers??) The deregulation of EA's is the burning point for me.....

stone169 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2012, 02:54:38 PM »

Getting rid of the penny is supposed to save the government billions, but those savings obviously won't be passed on to us.

I was talking to a friend of mine who lives in Quebec and their retirement is supposed to be going up to 70 because their just isn't any money.

Deregulating Environmental Assessments on Oil and Mining...blame the environmental extremists and foreign interest groups for that one. They've literally hijacked the Northern Gateway Pipeline with more than 4000 groups wanting to be heard that the process itself has turned into nothing more than political posturing.

As for the job cuts, it should be done by attrition with the contract workers going first, then people close to retirement, and then anyone else who has a project ending.

Dagwood · « **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2012, 05:50:08 PM »

The penny costs more to produce than it's face value. At the cash, if you pay cash...then there is no rounding up or down. If you pay by credit..then if it's a price ending with .02...it rounds down...if it's .03 it rounds up. It all works out in the wash supposedly. Pay cash then it's not a problem

I agree with Stone, the foreign backing of environmental groups is nothing but a self-serving interest to keep those $$$ in those countries....instead of Canada developing and exporting it's own WEALTH of resources. Those groups have only hurt themselves by trying to run interference... I say good!! Let's start bringing the dollars home please.

As for layoffs at the Gov't. C'est la vie!! I'll stick to my guns when I say Unions have driven up the cost of labour to the point where something has to give. Blame others or point fingers at careless spending...sure...but Unions need to take a hard look in the mirror. When I hear a Union come out and say "Hey, in an effort to keep my brothers and sisters employed, we'll cut our wages during these hard times and keep as many in the workforce as it takes. Until then... Bah bye becasue it will just not happen...ever!!
And Stone, why would you target people close to retirement to layoff? Did it ever occur to you that these same people carved the path those younger workers are on? What is a 50+ year old to do for work? Who would hire them at that age?. ... No way man... cut the younger generation who have lot's of time to retrain, reeducate or better...slide into something else or relocate. None of that is easy for a verteran employee and besides, it costs an employer a hell of a lot more to let go the older workforce than it would a youngun!!

CrustyOldGuy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2012, 10:55:25 AM »

Might be reading your post wrong Dags, but I think the penny thing is the other way around. If you pay cash, it gets rounded to the nearest nickel/dime. If you pay by credit, then nothing happens.

stone169 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2012, 01:36:40 PM »

Quote from: Dagwood on April 05, 2012, 05:50:08 PM

The penny costs more to produce than it's face value. At the cash, if you pay cash...then there is no rounding up or down. If you pay by credit..then if it's a price ending with .02...it rounds down...if it's .03 it rounds up. It all works out in the wash supposedly. Pay cash then it's not a problem
I agree with Stone, the foreign backing of environmental groups is nothing but a self-serving interest to keep those $$$ in those countries....instead of Canada developing and exporting it's own WEALTH of resources. Those groups have only hurt themselves by trying to run interference... I say good!! Let's start bringing the dollars home please.

As for layoffs at the Gov't. C'est la vie!! I'll stick to my guns when I say Unions have driven up the cost of labour to the point where something has to give. Blame others or point fingers at careless spending...sure...but Unions need to take a hard look in the mirror. When I hear a Union come out and say "Hey, in an effort to keep my brothers and sisters employed, we'll cut our wages during these hard times and keep as many in the workforce as it takes. Until then... Bah bye becasue it will just not happen...ever!!
And Stone, why would you target people close to retirement to layoff? Did it ever occur to you that these same people carved the path those younger workers are on? What is a 50+ year old to do for work? Who would hire them at that age?. ... No way man... cut the younger generation who have lot's of time to retrain, reeducate or better...slide into something else or relocate. None of that is easy for a verteran employee and besides, it costs an employer a hell of a lot more to let go the older workforce than it would a youngun!!

Whoa, whoa, whoa, you misunderstand me. Layoffs are done by attrition. Concerning the ones who are close to retirement...there are those who could retire right now, but the retirement package is your best last 5 years, so these people continue to work everytime they sign a new cba to get more money. These people will be asked to retire. The ones who are close to retirement, will be asked to retire most likely without penalty. They won't be laid off.

Broken Bones · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:25:01 PM »

My stance on public sector jobs is simple.

Those working in the public sector should not get top dollar value as in return they get job security and benefits that are not so common in the private sector. But thanks to the unions that was not enough, they wanted to get their members the top dollars as well and that has helped put them in the mess everything is in. Departments spend money just so that they do not loose anything from their budgets, because any dollar not spent at the end of the year is obviously not needed, and therefore the budget is reduced, but we can't let that happen can we?

I have had co-workers leave the firm I work at to work in the justice department, they simply have no work to do yet the government keeps hiring new people to fill these unneeded positions just so that they can keep their annual budgets in tact.

playertobenamedlater · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2012, 01:56:44 PM »

Quote from: Broken Bones on April 11, 2012, 07:25:01 PM

My stance on public sector jobs is simple.

Those working in the public sector should not get top dollar value as in return they get job security and benefits that are not so common in the private sector. But thanks to the unions that was not enough, they wanted to get their members the top dollars as well and that has helped put them in the mess everything is in. Departments spend money just so that they do not loose anything from their budgets, because any dollar not spent at the end of the year is obviously not needed, and therefore the budget is reduced, but we can't let that happen can we?

I have had co-workers leave the firm I work at to work in the justice department, they simply have no work to do yet the government keeps hiring new people to fill these unneeded positions just so that they can keep their annual budgets in tact.

i feel ya! Our civil servants have had it too good for too long, and their greedy unions are what is costing the jobs.

stone169 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2012, 12:04:08 PM »

It's not just the unions that are costing jobs, it's the high-level bureaucracy that continually make horrible and costly decisions, it's the costly projects that never get finished because someone new is in charge and wants to go in a different direction.

Because of government waste, some good people (yes, I said good people) are going to lose their jobs because of it.

BlindDruid · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2012, 10:39:05 PM »

So on a side note, I wonder if Harper paid for the tickets for his family at the Sens game tonight or did I pay for them out of my tax dolars.......

playertobenamedlater · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2012, 07:31:06 PM »

Quote from: stone169 on April 17, 2012, 12:04:08 PM

It's not just the unions that are costing jobs, it's the high-level bureaucracy that continually make horrible and costly decisions, it's the costly projects that never get finished because someone new is in charge and wants to go in a different direction.

Because of government waste, some good people (yes, I said good people) are going to lose their jobs because of it.

You mean like paying a million dollars for a pedestrian bridge over the Airport Parkway, then deciding halfway through to tear it down?
Anyone in the Stittsville area will be amused by this... that massive, castle- looking bridge on Hazeldean Road over the massive Carp River cost almost double the predicted price because it had to be reinforced. There were heavy metal forms in place when the bridge was initially built, that they paid extra to have removed for esthetic purposes... then they had to pay extra to reinforce it...
and we wonder why our taxes are so high...

rose · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2012, 11:00:38 PM »

Quote from: playertobenamedlater on April 19, 2012, 07:31:06 PM

You mean like paying a million dollars for a pedestrian bridge over the Airport Parkway, then deciding halfway through to tear it down?
Anyone in the Stittsville area will be amused by this... that massive, castle- looking bridge on Hazeldean Road over the massive Carp River cost almost double the predicted price because it had to be reinforced. There were heavy metal forms in place when the bridge was initially built, that they paid extra to have removed for esthetic purposes... then they had to pay extra to reinforce it...
and we wonder why our taxes are so high...

I'd be surprised if the City has to pay anything extra for that pedestrian bridge simply because it was the contractors doing it that used sub-standard cement and it was found to be inadequate to support the structure. Seems to me it's the contractors fault, they should be on the hook for the restart on that project.

work2play · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2012, 05:33:20 PM »

So what about the penny, it costs more than 1¢ to produce. So to me the choices were to either get rid of it, or make it a 2¢ coin. Since the production cost will probably go over 2¢ eventually, getting rid of it was probably the right choice.

The retirement age is not gong up to 67, you will not become eligible for old age security (OAS) payments until 67. OAS gets clawed back anyway if you have to much income in retirement, this will not have much impact (if any) on those that save and plan for retirement.

The way lobby groups hijack the EA process and delay projects for years, something had to be done.

As for the civil service job losses. Hopefully most of these will happen through early retirement. The rest should come from the bloated middle management rather than front line workers that actually provide services to Canadians. But I suspect that the managers will all CYA and it will be the front line workers that lose their jobs, while the managers collect bonuses for reducing the size of their departments.

Very disappointed that they did not reduce the $15-billion per year (on average between 1996 and 2007) they spend on corporate welfare. Corporations got a lower corporate tax rate, there should also be a reduction in what the government spends on corporate welfare (which as a fiscal conservative I happen to believe should be virtually eliminated for anything that is not R&D related). Maybe in next years budget, but I'm not gong to hold my breath on that one.

Sasquatch · « **Reply #12 on:** April 29, 2012, 12:41:51 AM »

Budget bill 55 ?
Which will see government involvement in things such as the public lands act pulled. Privatizing the forestry sector. Allowing development/land use permits within national/provincial parks. The need for public consultation removed. Allowing development projects to move forward even though they may affect species at risk.....
Thoughts in this one?

FV · « **Reply #13 on:** April 29, 2012, 01:27:10 AM »

link?

Broken Bones · « **Reply #14 on:** April 29, 2012, 12:37:25 PM »

I will just make one comment that my father informed me of regarding manager's bonuses. These are not bonuses that you and I might get in the public sector. My dad receive's these so called "bonuses" as a manager. He has an annual salary, but what happens is he gets 90% of that salary over the course of the year, after his annual review he gets his "performance bonus" which is really the remaining 10% of his annual salary that he gets simply for doing his job as required over the past year.

How would you feel as a private sector employee if your employer offered you a job with an annual salary and potential for bonuses only to learn that that bonus is a % "holdback" on your annual salary that you were offered.

Sasquatch · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2012, 02:47:35 PM »

FV:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&Intranet=&BillID=2600

Schedules
15, 19, 23, 33, 44, 47, 58, 59

Sasquatch · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2012, 11:49:01 AM »

If your really interested here is a Full Legal review done on Bill 55
http://envirolaw.com/wp-content/uploads/Ecojustice-CELA-Legal-Analysis-re-Bill-55-Budget-2012.pdf

CrustyOldGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2012, 12:34:01 PM »

What lay person can actually read those documents and stay awake? I guess some people can, but I think most of it is written so us regular taxpayers give up and go away.

Sasquatch · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:07:05 PM »

ya I get you... Thats why I didnt link that actual Bill.....

some snippets from other articles....

Little detail has been released but one example of the proposed changes would be to exempt developers from the Endangered Species Act and to remove the deadlines for species’ recovery strategies to be completed.

Liberals have voted to pass a budget that muzzles public input on changes to important environmental protections. With these changes buried in the budget bill (Bill 55), the government has in effect exempted them from the public participation process normally required by law.

The Omnibus Budget Bill goes even further with plans to strip another 50 million from already underfunded Ministry of Natural Resources. Funding for the MNR has already been gutted from a level of 1.6% of the Provincial budget in 1993 to .45% in 2011. During the same time frame the pieces of legislation the MNR is responsible for enforcing was increased from 28 to 46.

The Foundation is concerned that Bill 55 both weakens crucial global initiatives to preserve biodiversity and relieves government of its duties with respect to proper management of our Ontario Parks.

FV · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:13:23 PM »

I was actually hoping for a link to a credible news article on it to back up your interpretation. You could work in the beer store for all we know.